Dragon Ball Discussion

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't see why he'd exclude Kamiccolo. Gohan told him he was going to tell everyone. He either is only talking about the Saiyans, or he's refering to everyone, including green man.

 

[SSJ2]

Given the quality of your argument, I'll say "I don't see why he would include Piccolo" and leave it at that.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

What's wrong with it? Vegeta was aware Gohan was inviting everybody. Unless you can prove Vegeta thinks he's not fighting, no reason to assume he wasn't talking about him. Unless you think he's only refering to the saiyans on his statement.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Vegeta is definitely boasting his superiority over everyone at the Budokai. Too bad he was clueless about Goku's improvement.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Has anybody noticed Gohan's kick on Boo only knocked him down but Trunks' kick on a much stronger Boo send him flying?

 

[Jeff Styles]

I always find that weird... Even if Gohan was weaken from that one hit Boo landed on him, Gohan kick Boo a few feet back while Trunks's kick took out Boo for like minutes.

 

[SSJ2]

Boo' s ki is a lie.

 

[SSJ2]

How do people argue present Androids = future Androids? It's blatantly stated multiple times within the manga that this is not the case.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Probably because many believe the Future Androids held-back against Trunks like they did against Gohan. Mainly #17.

I mean, it isn't much of a stretch considering #17 believes #18 alone can kill Trunks. Knowing this, they had to have held-back in some form. We know #18 said she was no longer holding-back against Vegeta. If he put up a fight against both Androids, yet #17 believes #18 can take him based on knowing how strong he is, then the "good fight" he put up probably didn't amount to shit.

There's also Cell having a level in mind that he'll need to reach to surpass the Androids. You could say the Androids from his timeline are equal to the Present Androids to avoid this issue, though.

 

[SSJ2]

Those are fair points I didn't consider.

I personally don't see why it would be noted so many times if it wasn't the intent of the story. Specifically in DBZ 162, it is mentioned 3 separate times. It seems too blatant to me.

Cell's expectations of the Androids would be based on Gero's data, no? Gero could have put in different levels for the Androids if he made them differently in each timeline.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I'm of the opinion that the Present>Future. I just don't think Trunks' "I was able to fight them fairly well" really counts for anything if #18 can kill him alone. It disregards the statement altogether because we know they had to have played around with him to get that impression.

Yes, the data, but wouldn't it make more sense for it to be based on whatever timeline Cell is from? Time traveling isn't something any of them had in mind, so it seems more sensible that whatever data Cell was going off of would be based on his own timeline. Cell got all of his information from established data, which is why he said Vegeta had more power than he expected. The main difference here is he could sense Vegeta's change. Cell had to use Piccolo as a radar to find the Androids, so it seems unlikely that their data would just change like that.

 

[SSJ2]

My brain isn't exactly working right now, so I'll concede. :elmo

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

There's also Cell having a level in mind that he'll need to reach to surpass the Androids. You could say the Androids from his timeline are equal to the Present Androids to avoid this issue, though.

I think this one is more about him not being able to take both of them. He considered Vegeta a treat to him, after all.

My brain isn't exactly working right now, so I'll concede. :elmo

Did it ever worked?

 

[SSJ2]

Yup.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I think this one is more about him not being able to take both of them. He considered Vegeta a treat to him, after all.

Weighted Piccolo's power was the only power noted to be high enough to rival both Androids and he punked Cell. Cell being stronger than either Android is unlikely.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I mean the future ones who Trunks can fight

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Well, in that case, you still have Future #17 saying #18 could kill Trunks on her own.

The only thing he was thinking about was no longer having a "toy" to play with.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It doesn't have to mean they are holding back a lot on them, though. Goku, for example, was able to fight Cell fairly well, but it's certain Cell could kill him. Trunks vs the Future twins is even worse, considering his stamina would be constantly falling while 18's wouldn't.

The only weird thing about this is the way Trunks says it. He says he could fight them fairly well, what gives the impression he could fight both of them.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

If Trunks could put up a good fight against both Androids that aren't really holding-back against them, that would mean he could comfortably fight one of them alone. Based on what #17 said to him, they didn't look at him any differently than they did Gohan. If they wanted to get rid of him, it would've been done with ease.

Cell held-back a lot against Goku because he wanted the fight to be competitive. #17 wanted to keep Trunks around because he was their only source of entertainment. Both of these instances seem to be comparable.

Trunks is all over the place:

Trunks: “You were right… The gap between me and the androids was still huge…I think I’m lucky to have returned alive…”

Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”

Trunks: “I-I was able to become a Super Saiyan too…B-but, I was absolutely no match for them…They’re stupendously strong…”

Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”

This is exactly why I'm good with the idea of them holding-back against Trunks. He's too unsure of his own capabilities against them. One second he's absolutely no match, then he's able to fight them fairly well.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Has anyone noticed how Goku can estimate how strong Gotenks will be yet he needs a demonstration of the Super Saiyan kids?

Damn, every day i'm noticing how the Boo Arc is all over the place.