Dragon Ball Discussion

[Papasmurf]

Yeah I used to have Boo arc > Baby arc since at least it isn't as much of a gratuitous goku wank but these days I think they're either equally shit or even the poster child for the atrocity that is GT, is better

 

[SSJ2]

I'm struggling to find any redeeming qualities tbh

 

[ahill1]

Whilst Piccolo backing up due to Kaioshin's power (the Daizenshuu's statement) seems kind of doubtful considering the entire scene, I don't think him backing up due to Kaioshin's status automatically invalidates the fact that there was a big gap between their powers. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's possible Piccolo was backing up due to his suspiscion over Kaioshin's status but, besides of that,mhe was also heavily outmatched, hence his line later (which is pretty much saying Kaioshin's way stronger than him) and Daizenshuu's clear cut statement about Shin >>> Piccolo.

Granted that it seems doubtful that Piccolo could sense Kaioshin's chi (although Vegeta not being able to doesn't necessarily imply Piccolo wouldn't be able to, specially when this latter gets more information about Kaioshin than the other warriors ever could, likely -- or obviously -- due to the Kami inside him, which could also have given an idea that Kaioshin is way stronger than him), but there're other ways in which Piccolo could have realized Kaioshin is stronger than him despite presumably not being able to sense his chi, like how Mirai Trunks, in Super, could feel Vegeta SSJB was in a different realm through the "pression" of standing right next to him despite this latter having no sensible chi.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah I thought Cell arc seemed extremely underwhelming when I read it the first time but Boo arc is on another level.

 

[SSJ2]

There is not a single piece of evidence within the manga to prove that Piccolo could sense Kaioshin. For the purposes of the debate, the Daizenshuu os not an appropriate piece of info. If you want to use it to justify your claim, that's fine. However, you can't say that Piccolo could sense Kaioshin to go along with the Daizenshuu's statement.

Kami doesn't even know of Kaioshin's existence, not even the Great Lord of Worlds. It is all speculation because Kaioshin couldn't be sensed.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Gohan looked horrified when Bobbidi and Pui-Pui killed :bitch and Yamu.

As for Piccolo, you don't need the Daiz statement about him sensing Kaioshin. Kaioshin's own bio already states he's superior.

Kibito is also comparable to Base Gohan when going by that. I wonder what people think of that.

 

[Papasmurf]

Base Gohan ~ SSJ2 Trunks >= Zamasu

 

[Papasmurf]

That Gotenks surpassed Vegeta and the others line is possibly the worst line in all of the books. At least Goku's consistently been described as the strongest warrior even when he clearly isn't (like Gohan even calling him the mightiest when he was over twice as strong as him the last time they met), so the Galu fapping statements at least aren't THAT egregious... Vegeta >= Gotenks pre-Rosat is aids unless it's referring to base Gotenks.

The entry actually says "Gotenks and the other" so he'd weaker than guys like Piccolo and Kuririn for the stament make sense.

Actually the worst entry on the Daizenshuu is the Cell Games on Timeline 4. Like wtf?

I think they just forgot Timeline 4 doesn't have Cell traveling back to that timeline and just figured most of the events went the exact same as timeline 1

 

[ahill1]

There is not a single piece of evidence within the manga to prove that Piccolo could sense Kaioshin. For the purposes of the debate, the Daizenshuu os not an appropriate piece of info. If you want to use it to justify your claim, that's fine. However, you can't say that Piccolo could sense Kaioshin to go along with the Daizenshuu's statement.

Kami doesn't even know of Kaioshin's existence, not even the Great Lord of Worlds. It is all speculation because Kaioshin couldn't be sensed.

Except I didn't say Kaioshin could be sensed by Piccolo, I said that there're other ways to which Piccolo could know he was heavily outclassed despite not being able to get this information through the most common way (sensing chi), much like how Trunks in Super could feel he was heavily outclassed by Vegeta SSJB despite not being able to sense this latter's chi and only feeling a great "pression" or something like this. Or he could have had a hint due to already believing Kaioshin was the Dai Kaio, dunno.

The main point is that Piccolo withdrawing due to another reason besides power doesn't inherently mean Piccolo isn't weaker than Kaioshin, and Piccolo's statement that Kaioshin is above him can coexist just fine with the fact that he gave up because of something that wasn't power, specially when Goku didn't ask why Piccolo forfeited, just that if it was that bad. The Daizenshuu has a clear statement about Shin being way stronger than the Super Namekian, which makes Piccolo's statement -- even if just a way to get Goku off his back -- true by default. The only entry in the Daizenshuu that might be disputable is the one stating Piccolo withdraw upon sensing a big difference between their powers, which doesn't appear to be the case, although the one stating Piccolo is heavily outclassed still stands and isn't outright contradicted by any event as far as I am aware.

 

[SSJ2]

My bad, I misread your part where you said Vegeta not sensing Kaioshin doesn't necessarily mean Piccolo can't.

That example from Super has nothing to do with the manga.. Nothing about Kaioshin came across as great aside from his cocky attitude. To me it looks more like fear of the unknown.

I don't disagree with your main point. Your Daizenshuu point is once again irrelevant to what we/I are talking about. Manga only, there is no proof to show Kaioshin > Piccolo. I already said you can use that point all you like, but you CANNOT use it as proof that Piccolo could sense Kaioshin. There's no evidence.

 

[ahill1]

I don't disagree with your main point. Your Daizenshuu point is once again irrelevant to what we/I are talking about. Manga only, there is no proof to show Kaioshin > Piccolo

It's not irrelevant because the Daizenshuu is supposed to clarify things that sometimes are left somewhat unclear in the manga. We have evidence in the manga that Piccolo < Kaioshin through a direct statement (although it MIGHT be contested considering what one may think about the method he could come to such conclusion) and a direct statement in the Guidebook that Piccolo < Kaioshin is really the way it is. There's nothing in the manga not showing Kaioshin isn't above Piccolo and a direct statement from this latter that he is surpassed and, while someone might contest it, the Daizenshuu just seals the deal on it, because there's nothing implying the opposite.

I already said you can use that point all you like, but you CANNOT use it as proof that Piccolo could sense Kaioshin. There's no evidence.

I am not using it as proof that Piccolo could sense Kaioshin, but I am using it as proof that Piccolo is outclassed by Kaioshin.

 

[Future Warrior]

I already said you can use that point all you like, but you CANNOT use it as proof that Piccolo could sense Kaioshin. There's no evidence.

Why? Because you disagree with it's clarification on an otherwise ambiguous statement from the manga?

 

[ahill1]

There's no reason not to take the Daizenshuu here considering things are left unclear in the manga but still are leaning towards Ksioshin's superiority.

 

[SSJ2]

I already said you can use that point all you like, but you CANNOT use it as proof that Piccolo could sense Kaioshin. There's no evidence.

Why? Because you disagree with it's clarification on an otherwise ambiguous statement from the manga?

Did you read the sentence before that bro? I've been saying "manga only" this entire time. I have been discussing as if the manga is the only source for debate. I never said the fucking statement can't be used for fucks sake, simply that from the manga's perspective, that quote holds no water considering it isn't within the fucking manga.

Fuck I can't debate anymore when my blood pressure is probably >150.

 

[SSJ2]

ahill I'm done debating with you. We obviously disagree or you aren't understanding what I'm getting at. I apologize if my posts have been so unclear that we have to keep saying the same things.

 

[ahill1]

ahill I'm done debating with you. We obviously disagree or you aren't understanding what I'm getting at. I apologize if my posts have been so unclear that we have to keep saying the same things.

True, manga-only things would still seem somewhat unclear. But the same could be said about Kuririn vs Tenshinhan, no? There's nothing implying Kuririn is still stronger than Tenshinhan in the Boo saga, but this is where outside information comes in hand, like Toriyama's statement or many guidebooks' voice on the matter.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Kibito is also comparable to Base Gohan when going by that. I wonder what people think of that.

Kibito being on pair with Base Gohan is contradicted by the Z Sword scene though, while both Piccolo and Shin are ass in the Boo Arc, so it doesn't matter much.

You know, i used to compare Kibito's bio with Shin's when i was going with Piccolo > Shin. On a Green Man > Shin pov, both bios are kind of taking a scene out of context and ignore stuff behind it to make claims.

ahill I'm done debating with you. We obviously disagree or you aren't understanding what I'm getting at. I apologize if my posts have been so unclear that we have to keep saying the same things.

You're quiting because Ahill is too much for you

 

[ahill1]

nah, serious SSJ2 is >>> me. I am just Oozaru.

 

[SSJ2]

Krillin vs Tenshinhan has the quote from Yamcha at the Budokai though.

I want to stress one last time, I'm not saying you can't use the guide. If you want to use it, that is completely fine man. I agree it's good for supplementary content as such, but when we get into the conversation of whether Piccolo could sense him or not, just because the book confirms Kaioshin was stronger does not mean Piccolo could sense him. That is the only point I have wanted to discuss here. Your example of SSJB Vegeta is much more acceptable.

 

[SSJ2]

I'm done because I don't want to rupture a fucking artery talking about this shit.