EoZ Goku proves Gotenks is Gag

FeatsofPower

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Goku trains with Whis, not with Beerus. And what would Gohan even teach him anyways?
Whis is stronger than Beerus, right? Goku wants to be around the strongest people always fighting them.

Surely Goku was harassing Gotenks and Gohan on the regular after the Buu Saga to fight him.

How do you think Goku got strong enough to fight Majin Buu in his Base form?
 

ahill1

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Goku knows Gohan isn't a fighter like he is and isn't with his heart there. In peaceful times, Gohan prioritises studying... That's what he likes to do. He's only on battle mode when there's danger looming in. Gohan seemed very dedicated based on the library there was on his house... Goku wants someone who wants to get stronger and knows will be full time commited to the training. He wants to battle with someone who's with their heart on fighting. Having a full on battle vs developed Oob can please Goku whether he's above or below Gohan. He just knows what his son is passionate about, he won't force him to be a training partner for a training and battle maniac like him which does it except when eating and sleeping. He also had a close call vs Kid Boo... He wishes he can battle that kind of being, although gentle, as a way to measure himself in light of his improvements giving that person the condition to compete when getting stronger. He knew Gohan was way above himself there, when Kid Boo was about to be killed, yet he wanted to "settle" things nicely vs him when he'll been training hard for it... That happens despite the fact Gohan was above Kid Boo. Kid Boo picked Goku's interest just the same.

It's like Goku being all pumped up to fight Oob in the Tenkaichi when he expected to fight him in base... Gohan would obviously be way beyond base Goku there but he didn't even participate in the Tournament. He wished to fight Oob there knowing of Gohan's power and knowing OOB would be ~ his base there, knowing Gohan's unwillingness to compete because it isn't in Gohan to be fighting... His interest can be sparked regardless of how they measure to Gohan. Goten was kinda forced to enter the Tournament but maybe Goku sees him wanting to date as lamer than Gohan's more justifiable academical life, plus he's still below 18 years so Goku can be more incisive lulz.
 

FeatsofPower

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Goku knows Gohan isn't a fighter like he is and isn't with his heart there. In peaceful times, Gohan prioritises studying... That's what he likes to do. He's only on battle mode when there's danger looming in. Gohan seemed very dedicated based on the library there was on his house... Goku wants someone who wants to get stronger and knows will be full time commited to the training. He wants to battle with someone who's with their heart on fighting. Having a full on battle vs developed Oob can please Goku whether he's above or below Gohan. He just knows what his son is passionate about, he won't force him to be a training partner for a training and battle maniac like him which does it except when eating and sleeping. He also had a close call vs Kid Boo... He wishes he can battle that kind of being, although gentle, as a way to measure himself in light of his improvements giving that person the condition to compete when getting stronger. He knew Gohan was way above himself there, when Kid Boo was about to be killed, yet he wanted to "settle" things nicely vs him when he'll been training hard for it... That happens despite the fact Gohan was above Kid Boo. Kid Boo picked Goku's interest just the same.

It's like Goku being all pumped up to fight Oob in the Tenkaichi when he expected to fight him in base... Gohan would obviously be way beyond base Goku there but he didn't even participate in the Tournament. He wished to fight Oob there knowing of Gohan's power and knowing OOB would be ~ his base there, knowing Gohan's unwillingness to compete because it isn't in Gohan to be fighting... His interest can be sparked regardless of how they measure to Gohan. Goten was kinda forced to enter the Tournament but maybe Goku sees him wanting to date as lamer than Gohan's more justifiable academical life, plus he's still below 18 years so Goku can be more incisive lulz.
If the world needs saving, who is Goku going to turn to? Uub or Gohan? Considering Gohan is 1,000x stronger or whatever.
 

ahill1

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That world saving thing is more like a facade, Vegeta saw through Goku's most blatant intentions, battling Oob when he's at FP.
 

FeatsofPower

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That world saving thing is more like a facade, Vegeta saw through Goku's most blatant intentions, battling Oob when he's at FP.
Agreed. All in all, I do think Goku has become top dog once again and Vegeta is likely right behind him.

Goku and Vegeta were able to catch Gohan last year in 7 years, I believe in another 10 they can accomplish the same.

Nothing indicates Gohan is the ultimate source of power, the shining star is once against Goku.

And as we see in the continuation Goku surpasses Gohan in as little as 4 years, let alone 10 years. That goes to show you that it was always the author's intention to get Goku back as top dog once things came back.
 

Goku9001

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Yeah, I agree that Goku was the strongest whether it be in EoZ or Battle of Gods. The narrative was that Goku had already become the strongest and there was no one left to fight until he encountered Uub.
 

FeatsofPower

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Yeah, I agree that Goku was the strongest whether it be in EoZ or Battle of Gods. The narrative was that Goku had already become the strongest and there was no one left to fight until he encountered Uub.
100%. If you just simply read the story as it's intended, that is what you come up with.

One question for you, I feel like this is the best placement for Vegeta.

Goku > Gohan > Gotenks > Vegeta

Numbers wise they can all be somewhat close, but that is the general order I believe BoG probably should be.

However in EoZ, I probably go with Vegeta being 2nd strongest because of the way Vegeta talks in the rewrite and how he refers to himself, Goku, and Uub.

BoG I'm more hesitant to putting him second place, which the anime definitely seems to imply.

And do you think Vegeta has Super Saiyan 3 in EoZ?
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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The author’s intentions were always to end the series with Goku as the strongest (Except in the Cell Saga/Early Boo Saga, but Goku was no longer the MC there). Gotenks and Gohan surpassing him was basically an accident and it was clear that wasn’t going to last.
 

ahill1

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Well all I see are assumptions based on feelings on Goku being the strongest there. Nothing concrete from what I see, just a subjective "the story flows better that way".
 

Father

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Well all I see are assumptions based on feelings on Goku being the strongest there. Nothing concrete from what I see, just a subjective "the story flows better that way".
Jus justifying the bloat baby huehue
It hobby secret
 

FeatsofPower

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Well all I see are assumptions based on feelings on Goku being the strongest there. Nothing concrete from what I see, just a subjective "the story flows better that way".
Well we do have concrete evidence that Goku surpassed Gohan 6 years prior to EoZ, so all that is moot. Super is canon and trumps your opinion.
 

Father

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On a serious note I don’t see how
Goku isn’t the strongest at the EOZ
along with Vegeta.

despite what the manga suggested,
the BOG movie/anime/manga suggests Gohan was surpassed…so….
 

Goku9001

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Well all I see are assumptions based on feelings on Goku being the strongest there. Nothing concrete from what I see, just a subjective "the story flows better that way".
It's not feelings. The narrative literally tells us this is the case.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Well we do have concrete evidence that Goku surpassed Gohan 6 years prior to EoZ, so all that is moot. Super is canon and trumps your opinion.

DBS makes discussing EoZ very moot overall. The basic premise (Goku meets Oob) still exists, but every detail has been retconned.

Doesn’t help that as DBS is right now, Gohan is stronger than Goku. And this might be the last thing we see in the series.
 

ahill1

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I'm talking about the original manga only. I've no interest in speaking about Super which is just in a different vibe from the original story, portrays characters differently, with their personalities off, hasn't tried to keep itself consistent with the EoZ... I see the EoZ attached to the OG manga only, and that's the context I'm discussing things. I can't stop anyone from using Super if they want to back up their manga feelings for Goku being the strongest EoZ, but as far as the manga goes, there's no straight implication for it. At all.
 

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