Fixing FnF (aka the same ol' thread)

[Future Warrior]

He's not a prodigy in the sense that he has an innate biological advantage towards someone, like Freeza who never trained a day in his life but was still the threat he was on Namek.

 

[Papasmurf]

He's not a prodigy in the sense that he has an innate biological advantage towards someone, like Freeza who never trained a day in his life but was still the threat he was on Namek.

Cell was naturally multiple times stronger than Freeza (judging by his performance in Gingertown) and still viewed absorbing others as the most effective way to get stronger. Dabura was never suggested to have trained for hundreds of years, yet was many times stronger than that form of Cell. Pure Boo is SSJ3 tier simply at birth. Too many villains with greater signs of potential than Freeza appeared for the prodigy excuse to seem all that legitimate, and it opens up the can of worms of why literally every villain after Freeza didn't just spend a year training to become invincible. I agree that 40 years is a bit long but given that just mastering the Kamehameha takes 50 years for the average human martial artist and the fact that Freeza obviously has a longer lifespan than Earthlings (on top of the fact that he just lost the last 15 years in Hell and has to make up for lost time) made me decide to make the training decades long instead of just a few years. That, and Beerus suggests that 40 years is basically like a single night to him in BoG so his own training must have been ridiculously long by comparison.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Goku is a prodigy from his experience rather than innate talent like Freeza, so Gohan is a far more comparable benchmark. Even then though, the fact that Gohan needed several years of training to approach the level of power Freeza was born with speaks volumes as to who truly had more innate talent. Using ToP Gohan as a counter isn't really an accurate comparison either when this was long after Rou-Dai Kaioshin had drawn him far beyond his natural limits. I don't like the idea of Freeza just reaching God level from 4 months of training either, though I still wouldn't say it's completely inconsistent for him to reach such levels in a limited time with the right type of training.

Plus, Cell had the patience to sit in a hole for 4 years just to regain his fighting form and Babidi scoured the universe for a decade just to attempt to revive Boo. Not a big stretch when other (former) villains like Piccolo and Vegeta trained basically their whole lives to pursue greater power. Freeza just being able to get like 4 million times stronger in 4 months makes Cell look like an absolute loser for not just training off-screen and even traveling across time just to reach levels below a newly attained SSJ2.

The thing is, these are all different characters with varying methods of handling a situation. Cell wouldn't have seen a desire to train when the former believed he'd naturally become the perfect lifeform from purely what Gero provided to his programming, Piccolo was likely influenced by both his original self's desire for general improvement when wishing to become Earth's Kami (Piccolo noting Kami slacked off in his training) and the desire his current incarnation had to beat Goku before pursuing more pure reasons for training and Vegeta has the Saiyan instincts to grow stronger and an upbringing of being controlled by far stronger masters to motivate him. Moreover, Cell's initial characterisation is more in line with someone like Piccolo who was more than willing to play the waiting game, whereas Freeza is clearly far less patient or willing to wait with how he was more than willing to kill the Saiyans just on seeing the rise of Saiyans still far weaker than his top soldiers and summoned the Ginyus to Namek purely on an inkling of another Saiyan growing in power, not to mention heading to Earth immediately after being reconstructed without any sort of backup plan. Again, I don't like the whole idea of DBS characters just boosting themselves to whatever level the plot requires because "muh potential" but I wouldn't say the motivations of these villains act as a solid counter to Freeza's gains.

 

[Future Warrior]

I don't know how you can compare Cell to someone like Freeza who was literally bloodthirsty for revenge. He would most certainly not sit in an empty void for 40 years thinking of it either. I think you're blowing it way out of proportion here.

 

[Papasmurf]

Goku is a prodigy from his experience rather than innate talent like Freeza, so Gohan is a far more comparable benchmark. Even then though, the fact that Gohan needed several years of training to approach the level of power Freeza was born with speaks volumes as to who truly had more innate talent. Using ToP Gohan as a counter isn't really an accurate comparison either when this was long after Rou-Dai Kaioshin had drawn him far beyond his natural limits. I don't like the idea of Freeza just reaching God level from 4 months of training either, though I still wouldn't say it's completely inconsistent for him to reach such levels in a limited time with the right type of training.

The side characters in the ToP comment that Gohan is a natural well of talent when they see how much progress he made in such limited time, though. The narrative of DBS in general (Vegeta stating Gohan has the most potential even with their SSJB forms being taken into account and such) implies Gohan is just that talented. Even if say Tenshinhan got the Ultimate unlock he would never make such progress, and he's still one of the most talented Earthlings.

Plus, Cell had the patience to sit in a hole for 4 years just to regain his fighting form and Babidi scoured the universe for a decade just to attempt to revive Boo. Not a big stretch when other (former) villains like Piccolo and Vegeta trained basically their whole lives to pursue greater power. Freeza just being able to get like 4 million times stronger in 4 months makes Cell look like an absolute loser for not just training off-screen and even traveling across time just to reach levels below a newly attained SSJ2.

The thing is, these are all different characters with varying methods of handling a situation. Cell wouldn't have seen a desire to train when the former believed he'd naturally become the perfect lifeform from purely what Gero provided to his programming, Piccolo was likely influenced by both his original self's desire for general improvement when wishing to become Earth's Kami (Piccolo noting Kami slacked off in his training) and the desire his current incarnation had to beat Goku before pursuing more pure reasons for training and Vegeta has the Saiyan instincts to grow stronger and an upbringing of being controlled by far stronger masters to motivate him.

Both the main incarnation of Cell and the one killed by Future Trunks immediately resorted to time travel to absorb the cyborgs rather than make any attempt at self-improvement, even though they know for a fact that everything Galu or Trunks achieved was through their own hard work. If Cell could just use his Freeza genes to get to God tier in a few months as well, that makes the entire narrative of the Cell/artificial humans arc beyond laughable. Although 40 years is long, it is clear from King Cold already retiring before Galu's birth and still not being a weakening old man by the Freeza arc that Freeza's lifespan is much longer than those of Earthlings. It isn't that different than Galu training for 7 years prior to Boo.

Plus, Piccolo Daimao made no attempt to train to learn the Mafuuba Gaeshi or to surpass Kami and Popo, making it doubtful that Piccolo's desire for self-improvement is one innate to Kami's pre-split qualities. He just trains because he wanted to beat Goku, and later wanted to keep up with Goku and Vegeta.

Alternatively, you can say Freeza just wanted to train for a month and spend the rest of his time injecting those drugs for ki alteration that I mentioned, but he became intrigued by just how quickly he was improving and decided to max himself out.

Moreover, Cell's initial characterisation is more in line with someone like Piccolo who was more than willing to play the waiting game, whereas Freeza is clearly far less patient or willing to wait with how he was more than willing to kill the Saiyans just on seeing the rise of Saiyans still far weaker than his top soldiers and summoned the Ginyus to Namek purely on an inkling of another Saiyan growing in power, not to mention heading to Earth immediately after being reconstructed without any sort of backup plan. Again, I don't like the whole idea of DBS characters just boosting themselves to whatever level the plot requires because "muh potential" but I wouldn't say the motivations of these villains act as a solid counter to Freeza's gains.

Cell clearly isn't that patient judging by him growing bored from the 9 days or so he spent waiting after making the TV broadcast. He just saw his patience as necessary to achieve his goals. If Freeza knows that Galu fought the God of Destruction and lived to tell the tale, the desire to surpass even that (for his revenge or not) is a pretty good motivator for him training as long as he possibly could. Plus, it's still better than Freeza being so stupid as to not fix the same weakness that led to his downfall on Namek. If Freeza's impatience cost him before, that's all the more reason he handles this training regimen as thoroughly as possible. Character development trumps repeating the same mistakes.

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't know how you can compare Cell to someone like Freeza who was literally bloodthirsty for revenge. He would most certainly not sit in an empty void for 40 years thinking of it either. I think you're blowing it way out of proportion here.

Cell is an impatient character himself. Just the idea of growing "perfect" from absorbing two modified teenagers is the definition of a shortcut to power. But he saw patience as a means to an end. Freeza's had 15 years in Hell to dwell on the mistakes he made on Namek and while a cyborg to realize what he did wrong, and in both cases he lacked the desire for self-improvement and relied on either his innate battle power (that he couldn't maintain) or a fairly low increase from having machine parts installed on his body. This on top of Galu having beaten Majin Boo (who he feared) and fought and survived against Beerus (who he feared much more) can be good enough incentive for him to train as much as he possibly could.

And 40 years for a being like Freeza whose race clearly don't age horribly in a few decades (judging by King Cold not being an old man decades after retiring) is really something akin to 8-12 years for us. If I aspired to be a champion heavyweight boxer, I'd certainly train for that long. All the more if my rival was a guy infinitely above my innate power.

 

[Future Warrior]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Either way, I don't even think you would have to go as far as to say Freeza needs 40 years to achieve the power he did. That just sounds excessive. 4 months might be too short, sure, but there's also a case of too much.

 

[Papasmurf]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Either way, I don't even think you would have to go as far as to say Freeza needs 40 years to achieve the power he did. That just sounds excessive. 4 months might be too short, sure, but there's also a case of too much.

I wanted God tier to be a tier that isn't easily reached by mortals, which is why I went with the most extreme training method possible for him to power up so much. Goku clearly stated that SSJG was something he could never reach on his own, and Freeza has a power beyond that. Beerus (who is beyond them both) literally trained for what seems to be thousands or even millions of years under Whis. Zamasu trained for eons under Gowasu and is below SSJG. 40 years of training with sparring partners who aren't Zarbon tier weakling isn't the bare minimum, but is certainly less of a cop out than muh prodigious latent potential.

Plus, the idea of Freeza being able to achieve such power in mere months by training with Zarbon tier weaklings, much like #17''s insane training GAINZ from training offscreen while working full time, then begs the question of how fucking OP they would be if they actually went through Whis' training. At least with him needing decades to maximize his power, you can say not even Godly training could give him much power afterwards due to the sheer length of his training (especially since Golden Freeza is a God Ki power up in my rewrite).

Granted, keeping SSJG on a pedestal gets thrown out the window in the ToP and in Broly, but those are not problems I deigned to fix here. Plus, if my fixed version of FnF was the movie the sheer duration of Freeza's training can be poked fun at for laughs, like "Wow Freeza. Hard to believe you had the dedication to actually train that long" coming from Galu. And Freeza responding that all the suffering he went through to get to this level is all the more reason why Goku will wish he was never born.

 

[Future Warrior]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Either way, I don't even think you would have to go as far as to say Freeza needs 40 years to achieve the power he did. That just sounds excessive. 4 months might be too short, sure, but there's also a case of too much.

but is certainly less of a cop out than muh prodigious latent potential.

Freeza has a godly amount of potential. That is an objective fact. It's clearly not normal for someone who never trained a day in his life to completely shit on multiple skilled martial art Saiyans and Namekians who've spend their whole lives pushing themselves.

Him taking 40 years to accomplish that power removes that aspect. Goku complimented Freeza on him catching up to him in the short amount of time despite all the hardships he's faced. Again, I think about 3-5 years is suitable to get that message across.

It's almost like the 4 months bit gave you some kind of PTSD lol.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

The side characters in the ToP comment that Gohan is a natural well of talent when they see how much progress he made in such limited time, though. The narrative of DBS in general (Vegeta stating Gohan has the most potential even with their SSJB forms being taken into account and such) implies Gohan is just that talented. Even if say Tenshinhan got the Ultimate unlock he would never make such progress, and he's still one of the most talented Earthlings.

The most talented Earthlings still seem to cap out from similar training and benefits far earlier than regular Saiyans do though, nevermind the far more talented Saiyan-Earthling hybrids.

Both the main incarnation of Cell and the one killed by Future Trunks immediately resorted to time travel to absorb the cyborgs rather than make any attempt at self-improvement, even though they know for a fact that everything Galu or Trunks achieved was through their own hard work.

Both versions of Cell had been told by the computer that achieving their perfect form would grant them the ultimate power rather than training and had no necessity to go back in time initially when the Cell we know was, and his Future self believed himself to be, unchallenged in their timeline anyway.

If Cell could just use his Freeza genes to get to God tier in a few months as well, that makes the entire narrative of the Cell/artificial humans arc beyond laughable.

Not necessarily. Information unknown to the characters at the time doesn't damage the narrative at that time, and it's not as though Cell had an opportunity to freely go train until he achieved perfection; at which point he'd believed himself to have already gained the ultimate power.

Plus, Piccolo Daimao made no attempt to train to learn the Mafuuba Gaeshi or to surpass Kami and Popo, making it doubtful that Piccolo's desire for self-improvement is one innate to Kami's pre-split qualities.

The Mafuba Gaeshi isn't exactly something he could do inside a Denshi Jar and not something he'd get time to do when regaining his youth was the imperative, nor did he even expect anyone who had mastered it to still be alive in this era with how shocked he was at Roshi's reveal. Kami and Popo were irrelevant to his goals as he knew full well they wouldn't kill him for obvious reasons.

 

[Papasmurf]

The side characters in the ToP comment that Gohan is a natural well of talent when they see how much progress he made in such limited time, though. The narrative of DBS in general (Vegeta stating Gohan has the most potential even with their SSJB forms being taken into account and such) implies Gohan is just that talented. Even if say Tenshinhan got the Ultimate unlock he would never make such progress, and he's still one of the most talented Earthlings.

The most talented Earthlings still seem to cap out from similar training and benefits far earlier than regular Saiyans do though, nevermind the far more talented Saiyan-Earthling hybrids.

Which is why Gohan's talent is the big factor here moreso than a potential unlock that only brought him to SSJ3 Gotenks tier+ (e.g. an ant in the ToP). Gohan just getting that strong in under an hour of fighting is pure PIS, just like the 4 month gainz bullshit from the FnF movie.

Both the main incarnation of Cell and the one killed by Future Trunks immediately resorted to time travel to absorb the cyborgs rather than make any attempt at self-improvement, even though they know for a fact that everything Galu or Trunks achieved was through their own hard work.

Both versions of Cell had been told by the computer that achieving their perfect form would grant them the ultimate power rather than training and had no necessity to go back in time initially when the Cell we know was, and his Future self believed himself to be, unchallenged in their timeline anyway.

If Cell could just use his Freeza genes to get to God tier in a few months as well, that makes the entire narrative of the Cell/artificial humans arc beyond laughable.

Not necessarily. Information unknown to the characters at the time doesn't damage the narrative at that time, and it's not as though Cell had an opportunity to freely go train until he achieved perfection; at which point he'd believed himself to have already gained the ultimate power.

Right. But if someone far weaker than even Cell's pre-human absorptions first form can get to God tier in a few months of regular space training with much weaker sparring partners (Tagoma in the anime), that makes the tedious effort of absorbing humans and tracking down cyborgs whose ki can't even be sensed for "the ultimate power" a roundabout, ineffectual at best method of gaining power. Cell could've literally threatened Bulma to build him a gravity room and gotten to PSSJB tier in 3 months by FnF logic, that's why FnF has no redeemable qualities to me and why I made God tier as untouchable as possible in my rewrite.

Plus, Piccolo Daimao made no attempt to train to learn the Mafuuba Gaeshi or to surpass Kami and Popo, making it doubtful that Piccolo's desire for self-improvement is one innate to Kami's pre-split qualities.

The Mafuba Gaeshi isn't exactly something he could do inside a Denshi Jar and not something he'd get time to do when regaining his youth was the imperative, nor did he even expect anyone who had mastered it to still be alive in this era with how shocked he was at Roshi's reveal. Kami and Popo were irrelevant to his goals as he knew full well they wouldn't kill him for obvious reasons.

He couldn't do it inside the Denshi Jar, but he clearly feared it so much that he freaked out at Galu merely pointing his hands towards him because he mistook it for the Mafuuba. When Roshi actually used the real thing, he literally tried to fly away. On top of this, Daimao didn't even fix his other major weakness, the fact that his full power shortens his life (which isn't even seen with 100% Freeza). Why this happens is anyone's guess (such as him being an imperfect Namekian due to the split), but the point is that in the years that he was free, he never attempted to remedy this issue. Daimao isn't the self improvement type, but Piccolo Jr. who has his exact same memories trained for 9 years straight after his birth until facing Nappa and had no complaints about resorting to training his nemesis' child to protect the Earth despite still being a villain. Piccolo became so diligent out of necessity, not because Daimao/Kami were naturally the self-improvement type.

If Freeza feels the same necessity, he can train for 4 months in a RoSaT dimension. All we need to do is to have Sorbet reveal that Galu not only defeated Boo, but fought and lived to tell the tale against Beerus (perhaps with a spy robot recording SSJG Galu and Beerus' fight). There's your necessity for Freeza to train his ass off for as long as he can.

 

[Papasmurf]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Either way, I don't even think you would have to go as far as to say Freeza needs 40 years to achieve the power he did. That just sounds excessive. 4 months might be too short, sure, but there's also a case of too much.

but is certainly less of a cop out than muh prodigious latent potential.

Freeza has a godly amount of potential. That is an objective fact. It's clearly not normal for someone who never trained a day in his life to completely shit on multiple skilled martial art Saiyans and Namekians who've spend their whole lives pushing themselves.

Him taking 40 years to accomplish that power removes that aspect. Goku complimented Freeza on him catching up to him in the short amount of time despite all the hardships he's faced. Again, I think about 3-5 years is suitable to get that message across.

And? Beerus was talented enough to be recruited as Hakaishin candidate, and trained for eons and eons to achieve his power. He's still not a thousand times stronger than FnF Freeza or anything to that effect. Freeza's 4 month training thing completely makes him clinically retarded for relying on mechanic parts to gain an edge over Galu despite the fact that Galu himself suggested he train further to hone his skills on Namek, because he could've done just that for 2 weeks and been the strongest in the universe at the time. It also makes Cell sitting in a tank for 20 years, then burrowing underground for 4 years to gain a chance to achieve perfection only to end up astronomically weaker than even FnF Freeza's lower forms stupid. It makes Dabura, Yakon, Boo, pretty much any villain of slight importance after Freeza not training ridiculous. Super Boo even said that he could never tolerate someone stronger than he. But he never trained despite being leagues and leagues above Freeza (more potential), and having already weakened from absorbing Dai Kaioshin. When his power would be indefinitely unmatched from even 10 days of training, pretty much.

Training has been the bare minimum required to strengthen oneself, and even then it was seemingly less effective than Zenkai abuse or potential unlocks that bring you multi-fold higher in mere moments. It's just a completely shitty excuse, and opens room for every other villain after Freeza to look stupid because they relied on absorbing opponents despite it being much less effective compared to training, and went to great lengths to absorb opponents at that. And they had power greater than Freeza to begin with, meaning more potential.

It's almost like the 4 months bit gave you some kind of PTSD lol.

Forgive me if I want some internal consistency. Freeza being able to improve himself to base post-BoG arc Galus level with 15 years of training is fine, but being able to surpass SSJG in less than half a year (half the time that Galu took to catch up to a rusty Roshi in the 21st) from what seems to be just beating his minions up is plot convenience. If a villain is to learn his lesson after two horrible defeats, I want him to learn it fully by having him not only earn his power the hard way, but additionally to learn to remove his previous weakness. FnF did neither of these things. In fact, even after training Freeza couldn't escape the trash treatment. His "godly potential" 4th form was on the losing end to Galu's base form and his few minutes of dominance against SSJB Galu got skipped in favor of bullshit scenes like Beerus talking about food and his whole revenge was made a joke when Beerus could Hakai him over the slightest irritation. Galu didn't even take him seriously as a threat once he realized Freeza's ki drain.

That may be more of an issue with having Hakaishins and Angels roaming about than Freeza's character, but he was a joke and so was the movie. The one moment of tension in the movie (where Freeza blew up the Earth) just got reversed because of Whis' bias and people actually being surprised that Freeza would destroy the Earth when he gets desperate in the first place is laughable when Cell and Kid Boo tried or did the exact same thing (as did Freeza on Namek).

The movie was just so full of flaws, and undermined the significance of god forms that make even Potara fusion pale in comparison. All I did was lengthen that time through RoSaT mechanics, and it's not even as long as what the Earth's Rosat would be in 4 months (120 days = 120 years inside).

And as I said before, you could say Freeza already gained the lion share of his power in 5-10 years in the RoSaT dimension, but continued training for the whole 4 months while waiting on Sorbet to produce the ki altering drugs because he gained the mindset of a martial artist and became the self-improvement type. It's not much different than Vegeta's character development as he pursued greater and greater training methods to become the strongest.

 

[Future Warrior]

We know nothing about the history of Beerus before he was recruited as a Hakaishin and how he came to reach such power, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.

You're acting like I disagree with the premise of your argument lol. I never once tried to justify that 4 months of training would allow Freeza to reach God tier.

 

[Papasmurf]

We know nothing about the history of Beerus before he was recruited as a Hakaishin and how he came to reach such power, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Beerus is millions or billions of years old and his training still isn't complete, judging by him only having an incomplete grasp of Ultra Instinct. Unless 99.99999% of that time was spent just napping and eating, he definitely trained a hell of a lot longer than 40 years. We can infer what it takes for one to be considered as a Hakaishin candidate from SSJG BoG Galu being offered the job, and Toppo's existence.

You're acting like I disagree with the premise of your argument lol. I never once tried to justify that 4 months of training would allow Freeza to reach God tier.

But you are saying that a few decades is too long for his training, even though as I've proven above Beerus has been training longer, and probably achieved power greater than SSJ3 BoG Vegetto even before becoming a god judging by Whis offering Galu the job only after he gave Beerus a decent fight as SSJG.

If Beerus needs eons to achieve power that isn't incalculably above Golden Freeza's, 40 years is fine. Let's not forget that not only did Goku get a head start (Yardrat Goku >> Mecha Freeza), but went in the RoSaT, unlocked 2 more forms, trained constantly and even went through a god ritual and then gained a form even above that through godly training. Being able to catch up to that in a shorter amount of time with non-godly training and no rituals or potential unlocks is garbage just like some fanfiction character Garystuing, so I just lengthened that time with RoSaT mechanics.

And as you said, I'm not the only one that took issue with the duration of Freeza's training. Even in Japan and Korea, people were shocked that the excuse for Freeza's power up was so stupid, because there were far more effective ways to gain power like fusing, rituals, potential unlocks rather than just off-screen training and Freeza didn't go through any. He just trained off screen. Imo that's even shittier than Broly's OP battle improvement hax because that at least has a precedent with ToP Gohan and a similar case like Kale was stated to constantly elevate her power the longer she was fighting against Freeza and Galu.

 

[Future Warrior]

Then that just proves Beerus just isn't as talented as you think he is, if a mortal like Goku was able to get a better grasp of UI than he did. Goku with also 40 years of training was enough to be a Hakaishin candidate, but it's already established that he's isn't quite as gifted as you thought.

You started typing multiple paragraphs worth of useless information such as how strong Cell and Boo can get in 10 days or whatever as if it had any relevance to what I was saying. My point is that Freeza training for 40 years to get to the level of Goku (who is about 40 yrs old) does not do favors for his natural talent if it takes him the same amount of time to get there. I think if the movie gave him a bit more time (a few years) and gave better detail on exactly the kind of training regimen he went through, then there's no issue imo.

 

[Papasmurf]

Then that just proves Beerus just isn't as talented as you think he is, if a mortal like Goku was able to get a better grasp of UI than he did. Goku with also 40 years of training was enough to be a Hakaishin candidate, but it's already established that he's isn't quite as gifted as you thought.

Beerus has to be talented. Hakaishins are typically the strongest in their universe (aside from angels who aren't even affiliated with said universe) and he was considered one. Even in Super, the only antagonists around Beerus' level are Jiren and Moro. Goku certainly isn't gifted as Freeza in terms of quickly gaining power (not denying this) but he has always been the most gifted at figuring out the most effective ways to draw the full effects of the training he's been offered (mastering the SSJ form and such), even compared to Future Trunks and Vegeta. Still, Goku achieving UI was so contrived that the anime literally had him break the wall limiting him with a Genki Dama absorption or some shit and in the manga he just magically got UI Sign from learning shit that he already learned. It's also inconsistent. Beerus taking millions of years to get incomplete UI by comparison is more consistent, although I agree him not managing to learn it in so long is kind of dumb.

You started typing multiple paragraphs worth of useless information such as how strong Cell and Boo can get in 10 days or whatever as if it had any relevance to what I was saying. My point is that Freeza training for 40 years to get to the level of Goku (who is about 40 yrs old) does not do favors for his natural talent if it takes him the same amount of time to get there. I think if the movie gave him a bit more time (a few years) and gave better detail on exactly the kind of training regimen he went through, then there's no issue imo.

It's not useless information because Cell had more power at birth, Boo had more power at birth and they still acted like going to great lengths to absorb other people was the greatest way to gain power, which is made laughable by the prospect of Freeza training for 120 days to completely dwarf any power they ever achieved.

Let's just agree to disagree. I honestly didn't give the 40 years that much thought beyond the fact that going by Beerus' training regimen, Goku achieving most of his power through unorthodox methods that I outlined above, a few decades was a decent amount of training for Freeza to achieve Blue tier power when the BoG movie established it as something Goku could never achieve through plain ol' training (not to mention he had many unorthodox power ups outside of training before).

And let me ask you, do you think if Goku started out with the same power he had on Namek, and trained for 40 years with much weaker sparring partners, could he gain power anywhere near the Freeza that I described? He wouldn't, so it's not like I am denying Freeza is a prodigy. But I think "talent" is a shitty excuse to get to God tier with regular training, so I just multiplied the duration through RoSaT mechanics as I keep saying.

 

[Future Warrior]

There's nothing to suggest that Beerus is still currently being trained by Whis. Considering the fact that the Gods of Destruction all seem to be at similar levels to each other based on the Pre-ToP match, they just get trained to a level where they are qualified to become certified Gods of Destruction (Which he's already been for millions of years). Reaching UI isn't the be all end all for them.

 

[Papasmurf]

The fact that Beerus was shown to tool Champa with ease despite them having been evenly matched at some point shows that Beerus has kept up his training much more than some of the other Hakaishin.

 

[Future Warrior]

The fact that Beerus was shown to tool Champa with ease despite them having been evenly matched at some point shows that Beerus has kept up his training much more than some of the other Hakaishin.

When exactly did Beerus ''tool'' Champa?

 

[Papasmurf]

The fact that Beerus was shown to tool Champa with ease despite them having been evenly matched at some point shows that Beerus has kept up his training much more than some of the other Hakaishin.

When exactly did Beerus ''tool'' Champa?

In the Hakaishin battle royale. He beat up Champa and used him as a decoy. Champa even celebrated the fact that the fight was called off before he could embarrass himself.