Freeza fight power levels

[ahill1]

I like to think of Freeza underestimating Goku and using the level he was using pre fighting Vegeta before. Then when Vegeta stated for Freeza to be serious after the death beams, being basically using the level Freeza used to kick his ass. So I think vs Goku, Freeza was at the level he used when trouncing Vegeta and initially, vs the Z warriors. I think Freeza initially only raised his speed... When seeing Vegeta's blast, he raised his power to complement the former speed increase, which left everyone flabbergasted... And then Freeza used another level altogether when fighting no hands vs, what I interpret as, a Kaioken Goku.

Vegeta - 2,300,000
Freeza - 2,500,000
Freeza
- speed (vs vegeta) 3,150,000
- power (kicking the blast) 3,150,000
Vegeta's blast 2,800,000

Goku 3,000,000
Freeza (initially and firing the beams) 2,500,000
-- more serious -- 3,150,000
-- no hands 6,750,000

Kaioken Goku 6,000,000

 

[FeatsofPower]

- speed (vs vegeta) 3,150,000
- power (kicking the blast) 3,150,000

These need to be different.

 

[ahill1]

I don't think so. Freeza brought the speed level he had before to a strength level on par with that. He initially increased his speed and then his power.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I don't think so. Freeza brought the speed level he had before to a strength level on par with that. He initially increased his speed and then his power.

1. I increase my speed just a little…
2. I use my full effort to kick blast…


One requires just a bit more effort the other requires the full reserves of Freeza’s capability.

Should be a significant difference.

 

[ahill1]

Little bit in a sense that Freeza is so powerful that even a big increase is nothing to him. In the other case, it was a strength demonstration against a steonger attack. It needed more effort because it was a powerful blast, that doesn't mean the power was above the speed level... Only that dodging Vegeta with his current speed was easy, but with the current power at that level of speed, more effort needed to be employed to counterattack a stronger attack.

 

[ahill1]

Like Vegeta swiflling dodging Zarbon's kicks but needing effort to punch away his blast.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It took Vegeta keeping up with a single attack for Freeza to decide to adjust.

I see it differently. Freeza amped his speed from the first dodge, and the one Vegeta hits seems to be a Zangouken shadow.

 

[Kyo]

It doesn't seem to be one, it is one. No one said Vegeta hit anything, I explicitly said the opposite.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Like Vegeta swiflling dodging Zarbon's kicks but needing effort to punch away his blast.

Exactly. He doesn't need full effort to dodge Zarbon, but he's brought to his limits to deflect the blast.

Freeza used all of the power he had to kick back Vegeta's blast.

 

[ahill1]

Exactly. He doesn't need full effort to dodge Zarbon, but he's brought to his limits to deflect the blast.

Freeza used all of the power he had to kick back Vegeta's blast.

He was using the 24k level all along. It's just that deflecting the level needs more effort being applied. I don't see that as Vegeta using 23k and then 24k like I think you implied if you think the scenario applies to Freeza. It's just that Freeza needs 3,000,000 to dodge Vegeta swifly but against a stronger blast, he needs to exert effort, all while remaining 3,000,000. Like Goku defending from Freeza's blast in their warm up fight... He used way more effort there to throw it upwards. Do you see he upping his level there? Or just needing more effort because the attack was stronger? Or Kid Boo for instance... Did he increase his power when stopping the GD? Because he never showed that level of effort with his veins popping up. They were all using the same power, but imagine remaining at your 100% and needing to concentrate hard to put on heavy effort. Maybe the GD ones and Kid Boo can be different since the sotiation lasted for a while, but it's just an instance in which you remain under the same level, but one situation needs full effort under that same level, whereas that same PL allows to less usage of effort on a constant basis and no extreme situations.

 

[FeatsofPower]

He was using the 24k level all along. It's just that deflecting the level needs more effort being applied.

Agreed,

I don't see that as Vegeta using 23k and then 24k like I think you implied if you think the scenario applies to Freeza

No, I think the Vegeta and Freeza situation is different I was just trying to make a point about effort.

We have proven evidence that Freeza has used various levels.

 

[ahill1]

It doesn't seem to be one, it is one. No one said Vegeta hit anything, I explicitly said the opposite.

I think he's like saying the speed increase came already from the first time Freeza dodged Vegeta and later on Vegeta couldn't keep up because Freeza used a Zanzoken.

 

[ahill1]

Agreed,

No, I think the Vegeta and Freeza situation is different I was just trying to make a point about effort.

We have proven evidence that Freeza has used various levels.

Yeah but those various levels are noted. The first one was noted with the speed increase... And the 2nd one I see him bringing that speed level to his strength as well. One just needed a more casual speed demonstration amd the other, all while bringing his hitting power to the speed level, needed more effort being applied because he was dealing with an attack above Vegeta's level. Imagine if Vegeta were quick enough and Freeza could barely dodge him, but still dodge... He could be using the same speed level as when he disappeared from Vegeta's sight, but having to apply effort because he was dealing with quicker hits.

 

[Kyo]

because Freeza used a Zanzoken.

because Freeza increased his speed. As he literally stated.

 

[ahill1]

because Freeza increased his speed. As he literally stated.

I agree with that. I was just stating what I think GSM was getting at.

 

[Goku9001]

So we agree on Freeza having 4 levels but in slightly differing ways.

How strong is Freeza when he first fights Goku?

Shouldn’t this be effort based though? Freeza has a realm of power he can access based on his level of effort. When he initially attacks Goku it seems like he’s barely trying. I’d assume it’s the lowest power for the lowest effort. Yes, it's effort based, I'm just saying he tried the same...

dbzeta.net

Well, I'd say the difference there is Goku's true power was only ~8000. Sure he had Kaioken up his sleeve, but it wasn't an infinite increase and it had serious repercussions. And even with that, Goku knew that the only Kaioken he could comfortably handle was already far outclassed by Vegeta.

Piccolo only reacted to the beam after it passed him. I'm specifically talking about the instance where Vegeta kicked Gohan out of the way. Piccolo was staring right at Freeza when he fired the beam and still couldn't see it or react. He was shocked that Vegeta was even able to.

Goku's power is irrelevant here. He treats it as a substantial power-up in which Vegeta rose from a power roughly on par with Kaioken Goku's to 18k which only accounts for a ~10% difference. That was enough for Goku to conclude that there was a large speed difference between them whilst using Kaioken.

I know what you're talking about. Piccolo may have been off-guard here given that he was not expecting Frieza to be in any position to attack him from behind. Cell was one or two steps ahead of Goku and even that was enough for Cell to completely overwhelm Goku until Goku acclimated. What sort of gap are you proposing here?

 

[Goku9001]

Round 2, let's experiment:

2nd Form Frieza:
~ Initial: 1,060,000
~ Powered Up: 1,200,000
~ Full Power: 1,300,000

Piccolo:
~ Weighted: 1100,000
~ Full Power: 1,350,000

3rd Form Frieza: 1,700,000

4th Form Frieza:
~Initial: 2,200,000
~vs. Vegeta/Warm Up: 2,700,000
~vs. Vegeta(Kick)/No Hands: 3,200,000

Vegeta:
~ Full Power: 2,200,000
~ Full Power (Blast): 2,750,000

Goku:
~ Warm Up: 2,600,000
~ Full Power: 3,000,000

Not too shabby ehhhh @FeatsofPower?

 

[FeatsofPower]

2nd Form Frieza:
~ Initial: 1,060,000
~ Powered Up: 1,200,000


Piccolo:
~ Weighted: 1100,000

Piccolo W/Weights >= Freeza Powered Up

You can make Piccolo 1,250,000 here

And yeah, from what you were trying to do before, you did the 2nd Form and 3rd Form powers pretty legit and skimped hard on the Final Form, you are better off skimping a little bit everywhere. So this is a good start.

Not too shabby ehhhh @FeatsofPower?

It's getting better for sure. Let's see if we can make the best version of it here and now.

Here's about the lowest I can go for starters.


Freeza 1,060,000
Powered Up 1,200,000
Full Power 1,500,000

Piccolo 1,250,000
FP 1,600,000

I mean, this is the absolute lowest I could really go here and still claim to be being mostly accurate.

Piccolo gets stomped by FP Freeza, thats gotta be at least like an 86% gap at absolute minimum.

We might be able to pull it off at 4 million, I just don't see the road to making 3 million work. You gotta make 3rd Form significantly above Piccolo.

 

[Goku9001]

@FeatsofPower

I misremembered. I thought 2nd Form Frieza never unveiled his full power and powered up when fighting Piccolo but he powered up while fighting Vegeta & co.

Let's see if we can make it work.

2nd Form Frieza:
~ Initial: 1,060,000
~ Powered Up: 1,200,000
~ Full Power: 1,360,000

Piccolo:
~ Weighted: 1,237,500
~ Full Power: 1,417,500

3rd Form Frieza: 1,800,000

4th Form Frieza:
~Initial: 2,250,000
~vs. Vegeta/Warm Up: 2,700,000
~vs. Vegeta(Kick)/No Hands: 3,200,000

Vegeta:
~ Full Power: 2,250,000
~ Full Power (Blast): 2,812,500

Goku:
~ Warm Up: 2,600,000
~ Full Power: 3,000,000

Not as clean. Had to change Nail boost to a 4.5x multiplier to make it all work.

 

[FeatsofPower]

2nd Form Frieza:
~ Full Power: 1,360,000

Piccolo:
~ Weighted: 1,237,500

Piccolo Weighted is 90% of Freeza. So do you view this gap the same as Cell vs Goku? We've always likened this gap to Gero vs Piccolo. What do you have that gap as?