Captain Cadaver said:
Kenshi said:
GT had the same problem of Goten and Trunks being retards and not just fusing into Gotenks against Super #17 before he sucked up SSJ4 Galu's energy and became unstoppable though
That suggests Gotenks wouldn't have been a game changer there, with it being explicitly said in the battles with Oozaru Baby and Yi Xing Long, plus them being able to pull off the fusion against Super #17 would require him just sitting there and letting them without causing them to fumble. I agree it would've been better if they'd used it, but it's a different situation to how Gogeta is in Super as Gotenks wouldn't have been an instant win in any of the cases he could have been used.
Them not fusing into Gotenks against someone who didn't appear to be massively above SSJ Galu even after absorbing Vegeta's Final Shine Attack and just sat there absorbing SSJ4 Galu's ki blasts for a few minutes before being able to put up a fight against him is extremely stupid. Even if not a game changer, them not fusing to Gotenks when there was no SSJ4 Galu to charge back up to full power, to battle someone who was more powerful than an SSJ4 is retarded as well. It'd be like if they challenged Beerus in BoG without fusing. Plus, Super #17 buried them in rubble for a bit and sat there when they all transformed to SSJ/2, so I don't think the argument that they didn't have time to fuse stands. Even if they didn't, it's not like they couldn't have fled the battle for a bit and let Vegeta, Gohan and Oob stall #17 while they fused.
Fantastische Hure said:
Not to mention that Gogeta having the IQ of Gotenks on hard drugs and fooling around for 10 minutes despite having the ability to end Yi Xing Long in 30 seconds if he wanted to was hard to swallow with Gogeta's personality from M12
Gogeta wanted to remove the Minus Energy around Earth and had to annoy Yi Xing Long to the point he'd put himself into the position where it could be possible, not really any different from Vegetto's actions against Boo to fulfil his goal. It's pretty evident from how Gogeta immediately went for the kill once he'd negated all the Minus Energy surrounding Earth.
Gogeta clearly spontaneously thought of reversing the Minus Energy Ball's minus energy rather than him planning it, considering Galu openly said after defusing that "they shouldn't have played around so much." Vegetto also didn't have a time limit in Z (pre-Super soft retcon) either, so it's not the same situation. That, and the minus energy could've possibly been just wished away with the Earth Dragon Balls after killing Yi Xing Long, or Gogeta himself could've used the remainder of his fusion time using his positive energy to erase the mass of negative energy, which I don't think would be impossible when the Genki-Dama did just that in Episode 63.
Gogeta's personality in GT was a clear contradiction of his personality in M12. I don't see why the GT writers couldn't have just had him use Stardust Breaker to wipe out the negative energy after killing Yi (since it worked on reversing Janenba's negative energy transformation), if they weren't deliberately writing him as a retard to force the plot into a Genki Dama finish.
Future Warrior said:
It wouldn't have been so bad if Goku and Vegeta stuck with their promise at the end of Z to never use fusion again, but they are clearly willing to use it in DBS when the situation calls for it (they didn't during the ToP because of plot reasons, I guess).
In the ToP they weren't given Potaras and if they fused improperly with the dance they'd be sitting ducks for 30 minutes in a 48 minute tourney...