Gap MSSJ Goku/MSSJ Gohan at Cell Games

[xmysticgohanx]

Wasnt Darbra stated to be stronger than Goku expected?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Wasnt Darbra stated to be stronger than Goku expected?

According to Herms yes and that's because he has a magics. But according to Viz, he's tougher which is logical because the abilities of a fighter makes them tougher rather than stronger.

 

[sei'taer]

There's literally no way to argue that gohan wasn't stronger than goku. That's asinine.

It's confirmed by goku, gohan and cell.

 

[Papasmurf]

Gotta love how there's still those people who argue Gohan was below Goku until SSJ2 lol

 

[kriss-]

Cell had no reason to assume Gohan was much faster when he made his statement. He was judging Gohan's power.

The chapter title even says he surpassed Goku.

Title chapters can be misleading. If we followed that logic, Goten and Trunks have battle powers of around 50,000.

Cell only increased his speed and that is all that's stated.

There's literally no way to argue that gohan wasn't stronger than goku. That's asinine.

It's confirmed by goku, gohan and cell.

Well I'm doing a pretty good job so far.

Gohan is stronger than Goku. It's a stated fact.

Please don't act like your opinion is a fact, it's not.

Lastly, I'm not saying that THIS IS the answer, but it's definitely plausible and a good case can be made for it.

 

[Six Trails]

Title chapters can be misleading. If we followed that logic, Goten and Trunks have battle powers of around 50,000.

There is no title chapter that says Goten and Trunks have battle powers of 50,000. That's a chapter cover with a text box added in by Viz. The statement is also very clearly hyperbole.

Please don't act like your opinion is a fact, it's not.

It's not my opinion. It's a stated fact.

Goku: "Gohan will defeat you, Cell!"
Cell: "What Son Goku said wasn’t a complete bluff..."

If Gohan is only as strong as Goku, then it IS a complete bluff. Your anti-Gohan bias is laughable.

 

[kriss-]

Title chapters can be misleading. If we followed that logic, Goten and Trunks have battle powers of around 50,000.

There is no title chapter that says Goten and Trunks have battle powers of 50,000. That's a chapter cover with a text box added in by Viz. The statement is also very clearly hyperbole. I'm not sure how one could argue otherwise with a straight face.

Please don't act like your opinion is a fact, it's not.

It's not my opinion. It's a stated fact.

The statement still exists.

Please provide that statement that says Gohan is stronger then Goku.

 

[Six Trails]

The statement still exists.

It wasn't written in by Toriyama, unlike the title of the chapter which he came up with himself. And again, the statement from Viz is hyperbole.

Please provide that statement that says Gohan is stronger then Goku.

I just edited my post above.

 

[kriss-]

It's never stated directly that Gohan is stronger then Goku, exactly as I thought.

Gohan could only be around Goku's strength and still be considered impressive because he's a child.

The burden of proof still lies on you because I can definitely provide statements that prove that Cell only had to increase his speed to gain the upper-hand on Gohan but again, nothing will be stated that Cell increased his Ki or strength.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Dude, Goku isn't always stronger than everyone. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

Gohan is stronger than Goku. The equivalent of Goku's full-power effort is Goku holding-back in Gohan's eyes . He's weaker.

 

[Six Trails]

It's never stated directly that Gohan is stronger then Goku, exactly as I thought.

It is. I just posted it above. You completely failed to counter what I posted and instead just dismissed it by saying "it's not stated."

Gohan could only be around Goku's strength and still be considered impressive because he's a child.

I never argued that Gohan being called impressive is what makes him stronger than Goku. Is shifting goalposts all you ever do when you're proven wrong?

The burden of proof still lies on you because I can definitely provide statements that prove that Cell only had to increase his speed to gain the upper-hand on Gohan but again, nothing will be stated that Cell increased his Ki or strength.

Whether Cell increased his Ki or not doesn't matter, because it's still stated twice that Gohan is stronger than Goku. This is very simple, you're just too stubborn to ever admit that you're wrong.

 

[kriss-]

Dude, Goku isn't always stronger than everyone. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

Gohan is stronger than Goku. The equivalent of Goku's full-power effort is Goku holding-back in Gohan's eyes . He's weaker.

I honestly don't care if Goku isn't always the strongest.

I've made it clear that I'm presenting an alternate viewpoint.

You guys can interpret things one way but I can honestly interpret it another.

In this scenario, Gohan expected more from Goku BECAUSE Goku is always stronger.

See how I flipped that on you there? Used your own shit against you.

 

[kriss-]

It's never stated directly that Gohan is stronger then Goku, exactly as I thought.

It is. I just posted it above. You completely failed to counter what I posted and instead just dismissed it by saying "it's not stated."

Gohan could only be around Goku's strength and still be considered impressive because he's a child.

I never argued that Gohan being called impressive is what makes him stronger than Goku. Is shifting goalposts all you ever do when you're proven wrong?

The burden of proof still lies on you because I can definitely provide statements that prove that Cell only had to increase his speed to gain the upper-hand on Gohan but again, nothing will be stated that Cell increased his Ki or strength.

Whether Cell increased his Ki or not doesn't matter, because it's still stated twice that Gohan is stronger than Goku. This is very simple, you're just too stubborn to ever admit that you're wrong.

There is a problem with you asking for being countered. Counter what? An indirect statement that does not directly state what you think and one that can interpreted another way? There is no reason to counter that, I can just interpret it another way.

If you actually had a direct statement to prove me wrong, I would definitely acknowledge it. But as of now, I'm still waiting.

 

[Pyro]

Chapter: 403 (DBZ 209), P1.1-3
Context: Goku talking to Cell about Cell's next opponent (ie Gohan)
Goku: “The Cell Games will probably end with this next match. Since if he loses, there won’t be anyone else who could win against you…[ ] But from fighting you just now, I think this guy really can beat you after all."

It's not blatantly "Gohan is stronger than me," but it doesn't have to be when you can easily deduce what he's saying. How are the Cell Games going to end with Gohan if he isn't stronger than Goku? That's retarded. When Gohan does power up, Cell comments that while Goku wasn't bluffing, Gohan isn't going to win. How that isn't a confirmation of Gohan's superiority is beyond me.

 

[Six Trails]

There is a problem with you asking for being countered. Counter what? An indirect statement that does not directly state what you think and one that can interpreted another way? There is no reason to counter that, I can just interpret it another way.

If you actually had a direct statement to prove me wrong, I would definitely acknowledge it. But as of now, I'm still waiting.

Can you explain how "the one sho surpasses Goku" isn't direct? Because I'm failing to see how.

Different interpretations are perfectly acceptable, but in this situation, there is not alternate viewpoint. You're only resorting to calling it an opinion because you haven't found anything to discredit Gohan being stated to be stronger.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Except you didn't flip anything. Your assumption in the face of various quotes is just your refusal to accept you're wrong.

"The next guy will be stronger than you and me."
"Looks like Goku wasn't entirely bluffing. Still, it's a joke to suggest he could defeat me.

Translation: Goku said that Gohan would be stronger than both himself and Cell. Cell can see the how Goku's words were somewhat truthful, but he's definitely not on Cell's level. Cell is stronger than Goku, Gohan is stronger than Goku.

Goku is a lot slower than Gohan? Check.
Goku's full-power is a joke in the eyes of Gohan? Check
Cell did no actual damage to the holding-back Gohan? Check.
Is Gohan stronger than Goku? Check.

Post any type of evidence remotely implying Goku is stronger than Gohan or take the L.

 

[kriss-]

And what was Goku counting on? Gohan as a Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2? He had no intention that Gohan could actually defeat Cell as an ordinary Super Saiyan, the entire purpose of introducing him was for his latent ability.

There is still no evidence.

 

[Six Trails]

And what was Goku counting on? Gohan as a Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2? He had no intention that Gohan could actually defeat Cell as an ordinary Super Saiyan, the entire purpose of introducing him was for his latent ability.

Cell didn't know that when he made his statement.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

So Goku expecting Gohan's dormant power to overwhelm Cell means he can't be above him as a Super Saiyan?

Goku didn't say the next challenger is "potentially" stronger. He said he was stronger. Everything we see from Gohan afterwards is the result of him being a pacifist who didn't want to fight.

 

[Pyro]

Yeah, that obviously wasn't within Cell's line of reasoning when he claimed Goku wasn't bluffing about Gohan.