God of Destruction match

SSJ2

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When the GoDs all fought before the ToP, Goku said he could hardly keep up with the fight, and that it showed him how they were still far beyond his abilities. Yet when SSJG Goku fought Toppo it was said that their fight was already at the level of the gods. How does this make sense? The weaker GoDs didn't seem to be that dramatically below the stronger ones.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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DBS’ notion of “same level” is very broad. I think showing God Ki was a factor as well.
 

Power Level Guy

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When the GoDs all fought before the ToP, Goku said he could hardly keep up with the fight, and that it showed him how they were still far beyond his abilities. Yet when SSJG Goku fought Toppo it was said that their fight was already at the level of the gods. How does this make sense? The weaker GoDs didn't seem to be that dramatically below the stronger ones.
It doesn’t make a lick of sense
 

SSJ2

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It didn’t seem like a gap of that magnitude when Goku used it to knock out Trunks.
 

Animelover5487

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It didn’t seem like a gap of that magnitude when Goku used it to knock out Trunks.
Goku one-shotted him so quick Trunks couldn't even perceive his movements. He didn't even know Goku even transformed. That's a massive, massive gap.
 

Future Warrior

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Goku one-shotted him so quick Trunks couldn't even perceive his movements. He didn't even know Goku even transformed. That's a massive, massive gap.
Apparently characters have to literally blink away opponents into orbit to imply a thousand times difference. Speed blitzing just doesn't cut it.

:punk
 
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SSJ2

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Goku one-shotted him so quick Trunks couldn't even perceive his movements. He didn't even know Goku even transformed. That's a massive, massive gap.
Of course it’s a massive gap, my point being that it was nothing that a mere 3-4x gap would not be capable of. I don’t see God being portrayed as being say 50x stronger than SSJ3 in that instance, and there was no indication from Beerus or Vegeta that Goku held anything back.

Apparently characters have to literally blink away opponents into orbit to imply a thousand times difference. Speed blitzing just doesn't cut it.

:punk
Being a sarcastic asshole is not the way.
 

SSJ2

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It's not sarcasm, it's what your silly argument infers.
You can take a lesson from Animelover or GSM in that you can disagree without sounding snarky. We are discussing one of the most poorly written stories in existence, there's no need for that shit.

Yeah one shotting doesn't even need a 2x advantage, but why does that mean anything? Is Tenshinhan 70% of Android 17 because he wasn't vaporized with a glare?
Because I'm looking at it similarly to other comparable situations. It is nearly identical to Merged Zamasu knocking SSJG Goku/Vegeta back into Base form. I never disagreed with the fact that God is far ahead of SSJ3, but comparing it to the MZ situation would imply that it isn't an astronomical 50x gap or anything of the like.

Also was that not the exact argument that you and P were using to nerf the BoDB gains that Goku/Krillin made before the 21st? I recall that you guys were arguing that Krillin should only be ~2x the Orin Temple Bullies because that is all that is required to kick someone across an entire city. If this is now your argument then it should be reflected by dramatically increasing Goku/Krillin's 21st gains.
 

Future Warrior

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You can take a lesson from Animelover or GSM in that you can disagree without sounding snarky. We are discussing one of the most poorly written stories in existence, there's no need for that shit.
I didn’t know this was a formal setting with people I’ve rarely talked to. If you don’t take kindly to banter then at least I know now I’ll have to change my tune around you.

But back on the debate.

Goku vs Toppo implies a big difference between 3 and God, yes or no?
 

SSJ2

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I didn’t know this was a formal setting with people I’ve rarely talked to. If you don’t take kindly to banter then at least I know now I’ll have to change my tune around you.
Banter is entirely different than trying to make it sound like someone is stupid.

Goku vs Toppo implies a big difference between 3 and God, yes or no?
I never denied this. But as I've brought up in the other thread about the U6 tournament, there is a soft cap on how much stronger God should be compared to the regular forms. SSJ Goku is shown to be relatively close to Hit's level, within the range where Hit's abilities were still useful. SSJG on the other hand was far enough ahead of Hit where his abilities couldn't make up the difference, but it still wasn't far enough for Goku to one shot Hit at that level. It's pretty hard to reconcile an astronomical gap between these forms with these limitations, not to mention the way God and Blue are portrayed in the Future arc.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Because I'm looking at it similarly to other comparable situations. It is nearly identical to Merged Zamasu knocking SSJG Goku/Vegeta back into Base form. I never disagreed with the fact that God is far ahead of SSJ3, but comparing it to the MZ situation would imply that it isn't an astronomical 50x gap or anything of the like.

But if Merged Zamasu is PSSJB level, then him vs SSJGs is basically the same thing as a SSJ next to a Base Saiyan. A 50x gap. No different than Base Future Trunks taking a punch from SSJ Vegeta, or 18 dodging a blast from SSJ Trunks. Or Base Trunks taking a punch from a Cell Jr, if you want a DBS example. Or Jiren needing his hands to put down Roshi.

It's not because he didn't do a more impressive feat that he can't do it. BoG does a big set up for how impressive SSJG is, with Beerus finger-flicking SSJ3 and taking down Enraged Vegeta in a couple blows. SSJ Black vs SSJ2 Vegeta puts a quite massive gap too, unless you think SSJ gave Black a 1.1x boost or so.

This reminds me of some dude from Kanzenshuu that insists characters aren't planet level because their fights only make craters. In reality it's just that the authors don't have to bring those mind-bogging feats after the first time, because it's already been established.

Also was that not the exact argument that you and P were using to nerf the BoDB gains that Goku/Krillin made before the 21st? I recall that you guys were arguing that Krillin should only be ~2x the Orin Temple Bullies because that is all that is required to kick someone across an entire city. If this is now your argument then it should be reflected by dramatically increasing Goku/Krillin's 21st gains.

More like the opposite.

With DB: I say these gaps don't need to be so big.
With Super: This gap was established to be massive in BoG, no need to scale them down.

DBS gaps tend to be pretty bloated because you always have to account transformations.
 

Future Warrior

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never denied this. But as I've brought up in the other thread about the U6 tournament, there is a soft cap on how much stronger God should be compared to the regular forms. SSJ Goku is shown to be relatively close to Hit's level, within the range where Hit's abilities were still useful. SSJG on the other hand was far enough ahead of Hit where his abilities couldn't make up the difference, but it still wasn't far enough for Goku to one shot Hit at that level. It's pretty hard to reconcile an astronomical gap between these forms with these limitations, not to mention the way God and Blue are portrayed in the Future arc.
There is no soft cap.

You take the new information we have that provides us context and either reevaluate past material, or treat it as an outlier if there is an inconsistency from what the authors perception was.

SSJ = 10% Blue does not work.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Tbh multipliers are whack and this isn’t the only time SSJB is treated as ~10x SSJ1 (DBS: Broly). I can see it working if you really squeeze.

SSJ: 1
SSJ2: 1.25
SSJ3: 2.5
SSJG: 8
SSJB: 10

I think it’s clear Hit was playing with Goku though.
 

Future Warrior

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See, that Blue over God gap just doesn't make sense to me. They still use regular SSB even while the power continously drains, over using SSG. Meaning a sizeable difference that a 25% boost wouldn't account for.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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SSJG is portrayed as leaps and bounds above SSJ3 Goku every single time Goku transformed. Makes a Ki storm, impressing GoDs, you name it.

@Future Warrior that SSJB = 10 was a brain fart from me. 20 is a much better number.
 
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