Goku vs Freeza

[SSJ2]

Still, is the full colour manga capable of changing our thoughts? I'm not sure if I consider it canon or not.

What does the anime show?

 

[Six Trails]

Still, is the full colour manga capable of changing our thoughts? I'm not sure if I consider it canon or not.

What does the anime show?

Just a flight aura.<div class='spoiler_toggle'>Spoiler: click to toggle</div><div class="spoiler" style="display:none;">

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[p123]

Yep just like I said. Interesting. Indeed ahill, indeed. Shit, Goku is stronger than we all thought. Everyone throw out all your power level lists we are fucked.

 

[Kyo]

Thought this is what you always went with, p?

 

[p123]

No I had no idea that Goku showed two levels of power. He has his warm up power and then his serious power. I have put this situation under the microscope. I find it rare that many do.

Ok, so Kyo, this is how I feel as of now... What's your thoughts?


Initial Freeza, this is the level he is using when he kills Dende, attacks Piccolo and Co. and this is the level he uses to dodge Vegeta's first attack. I like Vegeta just at the edge of rivaling range vs this level.

Then I have Freeza increasing his speed as he mentioned, it seems to be a dramatic speed advantage. Vegeta is maximum 75% of Freeza more like 60-66% here.

Then he kicks back Vegeta's blast, Freeza seems to be taking Vegeta's blast pretty seriously, I don't know if he adjusts his level here though...Effort wise, yes, there should be more effort.

Now when he is attacking Vegeta, he says he will start out gently. Does he go back to the level he initially had? Why would he? This is were it gets confusing.

 

[Pyro]

Weird. I always thought those were Kaioken auras. Even the oldies back in the day thought this. Damn them. Damn them all to hell.

 

[SSJ2]

I still think the full colour is sketchy.

 

[Pyro]

Then again, doesn't the anime have him using a Kaioken aura when he's flying toward the Ginyu fight after first arriving on Namek?

 

[p123]

Lol KP. Damn it all to hell! Ain't it a bitch when you learn some new shit that completely fucks your complete understanding of the most basic shit? Have you guys adopted the Imperfect Cell Initial Evolution shit? Another mind fucker.

But before you guys try to hamster out of this one, I'd like to say that he is seen using an aura during the warm up phase as well.

The only thing that even makes me consider it at this point is how he refers to Kaioken as his true power against Ginyu.

 

[Six Trails]

EDIT: Thought you said full color. My bad.
EDIT 2: Yes, the anime does give Goku a Kaioken aura when flying towards the Ginyus.

 

[Kyo]

> "No I had no idea that Goku showed two levels of power. He has his warm up power and then his serious power. I have put this situation under the microscope. I find it rare that many do."

Weren't you just talking to ssj2 about this elsewhere or was that something else? Anyway I'll get to your post later.

 

[p123]

Yes, but that was like 5 minutes ago... I was speaking to becoming aware of this just yesterday. I never knew Goku showed more than one power. I never have looked to hard into the statements surrounding the battle powers or generally accepted battle powers.

Meanwhile, there is a lot to discuss there. Raditz Saga, Ginyu vs Goku for sure and so on. There's some missing stuff out there.

Goku vs Ginyu is something we haven't finished, but after reading it again, I think it's pretty simple...


85,000 > Goku Powered Up > Initial Goku > 60,000

 

[SSJ2]

When did Goku power up against Ginyu over his ~65k level?

 

[ahill1]

No I had no idea that Goku showed two levels of power. He has his warm up power and then his serious power. I have put this situation under the microscope. I find it rare that many do.

Ok, so Kyo, this is how I feel as of now... What's your thoughts?


Initial Freeza, this is the level he is using when he kills Dende, attacks Piccolo and Co. and this is the level he uses to dodge Vegeta's first attack. I like Vegeta just at the edge of rivaling range vs this level.

Then I have Freeza increasing his speed as he mentioned, it seems to be a dramatic speed advantage. Vegeta is maximum 75% of Freeza more like 60-66% here.

Then he kicks back Vegeta's blast, Freeza seems to be taking Vegeta's blast pretty seriously, I don't know if he adjusts his level here though...Effort wise, yes, there should be more effort.

Now when he is attacking Vegeta, he says he will start out gently. Does he go back to the level he initially had? Why would he? This is were it gets confusing.

Yea, that's what I had asked you a while ago. I have serious doubts about that too. Does Freeza ( Warm-up Vs Goku ) > Freeza ( Embarassing Vegeta ) ? If so, Goku base should be a serious beast.

Freeza ( W/o hands ) > Goku base ( Full power ) > Freeza ( Warm up ) >= Goku base ( Warm up ) > Freeza ( Embarassing Vegeta ) > Freeza ( Initial True Power ) >= Vegeta ( Zenkai ).

As Vegeta ( Zenkai ) should have at least 3,000,000 Goku ( Full power base ) should have at least 6,000,000 of pl, and this would be being as minimalist as possible.

Freeza ( 2nd Form ) 2,000,000

Vegeta ( Zenkai ) 3,000,000

Freeza ( Initial True Power ) 3,375,000
~ Embarassing Vegeta 4,600,000
~ Fighting Goku 5,300,000
~ W/o Hands 6,600,000

Son Goku 5,000,000
( Warm Up Over ) 6,000,000


@Super Saiyan : I don't know... even the anime has Goku with just a flight aura.

 

[Zippy]

The aura goku has aginst frieza without hands kinda looks like this one rather than kaioken.

 

[p123]

Let's get as much Herms and JP anime as we can get here. But this is Viz.





Goku: All right. Sorry to have to do this to you after you just showed up, but I'm going to have finish this quick.

Considering that Goku and Ginyu just fought evenly, this statement boils down to Goku saying " I have mo powa nigga you ded "


Ginyu - Hahaha! Listen to you! This is the first time anyone's ever said anything like that to me. I almost regret having to beat that confidence out of you. You see I happen to be able to change my battle strength at will, too!


Translation- Oh you think you got mo powa, I got mo powa than the mo powa you got, negro, YOU DEAD.

Goku's expression is basically Oh Shit Son.


Ginyu gets an aura, Goku screams " No " They fight for a while.

Ginyu- Did you really think I wouldn't notice you are concealing your true strength? What are you, saving it until you meet Master Freeza? You won't go very far by underestimating me!! I don't often get to enjoy my battles- so get serious and fight!

Goku- Okay...I'll show you my full power then...


Now Goku has just told Ginyu he had more power, they fight a little more and Ginyu thinks Goku is still holding back some. How does that make sense if he has not altered his power at all? It doesn't.

 

[p123]

Yes Ahill, that seems to be the problem, is it that Freeza has showcased 4 levels of power or no?

 

[ahill1]

@p123: Yea I think Goku showed 4 power levels against the Ginyus :

1) His extremely suppressed : 5,000
2) Bursts of 60k ( Actually a bit higher ) vs the Ginyus : 65k
3) Powered up vs Ginyu : 70,000
4) Kaioken : 180,000

His powered up against Ginyu has to be extremely low, since Ginyu should be expecting at least a 80-100 power up from Goku. He said Goku is saving the reserves to fight Freeza... The reserves must be big. Therefore Goku ( Powered up vs Ginyu ) must be considerably below 85,000.

 

[Zippy]

Starting out gently could just mean less "effort"
Dont see a reason to have his vs warm up goku level higher than his playing with vegeta level.

Edit: also i dont think goku was ever at 60,000 he was always using more than that.

In herms after ginyu goes at him for a little at the beggining he claims he is stronger than he thought he was capable of (60,000)

Dont see why he wouldnt use the same power to out do the other ginyus.

 

[p123]

I don't think that works. I think AT messed up here. Here's how it should be once you remove the power levels.

1) Ridiculously low suppression incapable of defeating Ginyu Force.
2) A power substantially superior to Ginyu Force.
3) A power even better than that.
4) A power of quickly taking out the previous power.
5) Full Power



So as you can see, Goku vs Ginyu Round 2 should technically be fought at a level much higher than Round 1. Why? Goku says he will take out Ginyu quickly.

Unless you want to speculate that Ginyu is able to decipher that Goku wasn't going all out because the power he showed him wouldn't be capable of taking out their initial powers?

Make sense? This is some deep shit here man wtf haha