How strong is Android Piccolo compared to Goku/Vegeta?

[p123]

He's putting all of his effort as in, he's trying his hardest. He's trying his hardest because his heart condition is very tough on him. So he needs to go all out to try to finish the android.

Piccolo on the other hand, does not have a debilitating heart condition. He can take 20 out at his leisure.

It still doesn't answer the question why Piccolo is playing second fiddle to Goku the entire time. He even makes a mockery of himself when he tries to get involved. He is ass up, face down when it came time to save Goku when he is supposedly the greatly superior fighter here? Nah...

 

[Super Neko Majin Z]

And with all this evidence, some people actually still think Frieza > Piccolo...

 

[Pyro]

So we just ignore Future 17's power? Less than half is fairly close to Future Gohan, who's basically Future Trunks' equal. Having Piccolo starting out already 2x stronger than post-Yardrat Goku would push the Super Saiyans way past 17's full power.

 

[p123]

Sure, less than half. But less than half can be a number of things.

 

[Kyo]

It still doesn't answer the question why Piccolo is playing second fiddle to Goku the entire time. He even makes a mockery of himself when he tries to get involved. He is ass up, face down when it came time to save Goku when he is supposedly the greatly superior fighter here? Nah...

Toriyama's just a bad writer. Piccolo wouldn't do nothing in that situation but Toriyama couldn't reveal his power yet, so we get the halfassed "damn I was right about to move when Vegeta swooped in" shlock.

 

[ahill1]

It still doesn't answer the question why Piccolo is playing second fiddle to Goku the entire time. He even makes a mockery of himself when he tries to get involved. He is ass up, face down when it came time to save Goku when he is supposedly the greatly superior fighter here? Nah...

Toriyama's just a bad writer. Piccolo wouldn't do nothing in that situation but Toriyama couldn't reveal his power yet, so we get the halfassed "damn I was right about to move when Vegeta swooped in" shlock.

So Kyo, how do you see 20 vs 19? 20 post > 19 post?

 

[freezamite]

Piccolo was at SSJ Trunks levels of power more or less, and considering he couldn't know how strong those androids were it's only logical that he did what he did in order to try to save Goku.
Of course, after Vegeta appeared and he saw how the androids performed against him he understood the extent of the android's power and acted accordingly after that fight.

Toriyama a bad writter? LoL. Even if he made some mistakes, his writing proved to be of a high enough level that most of the "readers" (more like anime spectators) can't even understand things as obvious as #18 and Vegeta being more or less at the same ballpark in terms of power, Nappa being stronger than Goku, SSJ Goku in Namek being much weaker than KKx20 Namek Goku (and that one was even clarified by himself), Mecha being much weaker than his original form and etc. etc. of situations that he designed with a bit of added complexity and that can't be explained with a simple "A is stronger than B because A wins against B".
I mean, I even doubt most of the anime spectators could explain something as simple as why Goku had to use the KKx4 to defeat Vegeta's Garlick-Ho when just some moments ago his KKx3 was more than enough to completely overpower Vegeta, so if Toriyama is a bad writer that's a good thing, because if his level of writing was already much above what the majority of the followers of his work can understand, imagine if he was better and he got to design even more complicated scenarios!

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Sounds like delusion.

 

[p123]

I hear you guys, but for now, I am rolling with 19 Post > 20 Post. I don't like how the logic or numbers work out the other way.

 

[Void]

Lol, made some mistakes, his writing proved to be of a high enough level that most of the "readers" (more like anime spectators) can't even understand things as obvious as #18 and Vegeta being more or less at the same ballpark in terms of power, Nappa being stronger than Goku, SSJ Goku in Namek being much weaker than KKx20 Namek Goku (and that one was even clarified by himself)

Lol, the manga doesn't push that message whatsoever, you are delusional.

 

[Void]

I hear you guys, but for now, I am rolling with 19 Post > 20 Post. I don't like how the logic or numbers work out the other way.

But all signs still point to 20 pre > 19 post...

 

[p123]

You mean 19 > 20 right? 19 stood his ground and fought everything the Z Team had to offer. Meanwhile, 20 ran away, hid in the mountains, performed sneak attacks. 20 is scared shitless because of how bad 19 got thrashed. He has little to offer the situation.

 

[Void]

Because 19 fought Goku and 20 ran, that means 19 is superior?

- 20 is worried about 19 pre's chances against Sick Goku
- 20 says he is superior to 19
- A weakened Vegeta who killed 19 had to make a bluff against 20 or he would lost, Piccolo confirms this
- 20 thinks absorbing Piccolo and the other's power will put him ahead of Vegeta
- 20 thinks absorbing Piccolo a second time would help him surpass Vegeta

 

[p123]

He wasn't initially worried about 19 vs Super Saiyan Goku. He said that it was a power that 19 was more than capable of handling.

 

[Void]

What? Goku starts pummeling him and 20 says something like; "If this keeps up, 19 will run out of power!"

Sounds worried to me.

Also, why wouldn't 20 say something like; "If this keeps up, 19 will run out of power, and I'll be next!!!" if he was inferior?

 

[p123]

I said initially. Gero's statements have been wrong many times.

20 (Post Yamcha) >= 20 (Initial) > 19 (Initial)

20 makes it clear by saying that Android #19 is more than capable of defeating Super Saiyan Goku and naturally that goes for him as well.

 

[Kyo]

So Kyo, how do you see 20 vs 19? 20 post > 19 post?

Yeah.

- A weakened Vegeta who killed 19 had to make a bluff against 20 or he would lost, Piccolo confirms this

Well, he was weakened. I'm always on the fence about 20 pre/19 post though.

 

[p123]

19 Post should definitely be stronger than 20 Pre, I mean really? Why wouldn't he be?

 

[ahill1]

20 pre > 19 post comes from Vegeta having to make bluff against 20, the same Vegeta who wasn't much different from the one who destroyed #19.

 

[Pyro]

That leads to wondering how much power Vegeta had lost.

Vegeta >> Vegeta (post-drain) > #20 (pre) > Vegeta (post-BBA) > #19 (post), is what's suggested IMO...but I haven't read that part in a while. I do know that Vegeta had most of his energy drained when he allowed #19 to grab him, not from the Big Bang Attack, so he should definitely still be noticeably above #19 (post) even after having a good chunk of power sucked away. That's a big gap already, and then add more power used for the Big Bang Attack and you've got an even more sizeable gap to play with. Yet Vegeta knows (and Piccolo confirms) that he would lose against a fresh #20. He could've been assuming for absorption, but by that point he knew how it worked and how to counter it. Either #20 was already strong enough to at least put up a fight and absorption would surely turn the tide, or #20 was flatout stronger.