How strong is the Golden Monkey state?

[SIAD]

Is it simply a multiplier? Is 10x the strongest SSJ form? or is it just an established power just like the SSJ4?

 

[Papasmurf]

The narrator said that it was Goku's hidden power unleashed, so I think it's just a full potential unlock just like SSJ4. There isn't a single source that says SSJ4 is stronger than Golden Oozaru either, and the only thing that implies it is Super Baby being around SSJ4 Galu's level, which could easily mean that since Vegeta's body was already maximized, Baby couldn't draw out more strength.

 

[SIAD]

The narrator said that it was Goku's hidden power unleashed, so I think it's just a full potential unlock just like SSJ4. There isn't a single source that says SSJ4 is stronger than Golden Oozaru either, and the only thing that implies it is Super Baby being around SSJ4 Galu's level, which could easily mean that since Vegeta's body was already maximized, Baby couldn't draw out more strength.

@Kenshi Yes, what happens is that I was watching SBV2 I was confident in defeating Golden Ohzaru Goku, however, Golden Ohzaru Goku far surpassed SBV2.

How many times more powerful do you have Baby Vegeta Golden Monkey on SBV2? And how many times more powerful do you have Goku Golden Monkey over Goku SSJ3 (Baby)?

 

[Papasmurf]

I just have SBV2 getting 10x stronger for simplicity, but I've never done a GT power level list since they get Toei haxed constantly without explanation to the extent that SSJ Galu goes from being unable to one-shot Redjic to being almost even with pre-10x KHH absorption Super #17 without ever being seen training. With Golden Oozaru Galu, I just have the same gap between SSJ3 and SSJ4 forms of Galu since I don't believe SSJ4 makes you much stronger than GO, or it would've been noted (like when Tenshinhan said that SSJ2 Kale was stronger than BSSJ Kale).

 

[SIAD]

I just have SBV2 getting 10x stronger for simplicity, but I've never done a GT power level list since they get Toei haxed constantly without explanation to the extent that SSJ Galu goes from being unable to one-shot Redjic to being almost even with pre-10x KHH absorption Super #17 without ever being seen training. With Golden Oozaru Galu, I just have the same gap between SSJ3 and SSJ4 forms of Galu since I don't believe SSJ4 makes you much stronger than GO, or it would've been noted (like when Tenshinhan said that SSJ2 Kale was stronger than BSSJ Kale).

And where do we place Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo) in DBGT?

 

[Papasmurf]

And where do we place Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo) in DBGT?

Probably between SBV2 and SSJ4 Galu/GO Baby/post-absorption Super #17. I think if initial SSJ4 Galu didn't already surpass SSJ3 Vegetto, he did after the other Saiyans' energy brought him to full power.

 

[SIAD]

Probably between SBV2 and SSJ4 Galu/GO Baby/post-absorption Super #17. I think if initial SSJ4 Galu didn't already surpass SSJ3 Vegetto, he did after the other Saiyans' energy brought him to full power.

@Kenshi By the way, do you think Vegetto SSJ (Boo) = Base Baby Vegeta's option is valid?

 

[Papasmurf]

@Kenshi By the way, do you think Vegetto SSJ (Boo) = Base Baby Vegeta's option is valid?

I think SBV1 > SSJ Vegetto > Vegeta-Baby.

 

[SIAD]

I think SBV1 > SSJ Vegetto > Vegeta-Baby.

I also think the same, but is there something wrong with having SBV1> Vegetto SSJ (Boo) = Base Baby Vegeta?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The narrator said that it was Goku's hidden power unleashed, so I think it's just a full potential unlock just like SSJ4. There isn't a single source that says SSJ4 is stronger than Golden Oozaru either, and the only thing that implies it is Super Baby being around SSJ4 Galu's level, which could easily mean that since Vegeta's body was already maximized, Baby couldn't draw out more strength.

Super Saiyan is also described as tapping into hidden power. Just because it's using hidden power doesn't mean the boost can't be quantified. I say it's 10x the saiyan's strongest SSJ form.

 

[Papasmurf]

Super Saiyan is also described as tapping into hidden power. Just because it's using hidden power doesn't mean the boost can't be quantified. I say it's 10x the saiyan's strongest SSJ form

SSJ clearly gets stronger though, it's just a breaking of your limits in base form at the time of attaining, and all 3 of the first 3 forms have official multipliers. Meanwhile, Old Kaioshin said that pulling out Galu's tail would unlock his hidden power and the narrator said that Goku's hidden power was finally unleashed when he went GO. SSJ4 is described as having the power of Golden Oozaru, and the Perfect Files openly says that it draws the hidden power of a Saiyan to its limits, without ever saying it is a further power up from Golden Oozaru. SSJ4 Galu also doesn't appear to get stronger between the Baby and S17/Evil Dragons arcs despite the fact that his lower forms got Toei haxed repeatedly, aside from when he is donated energy beyond his full power.

 

[SIAD]

@Kenshi @GreatSaiyaman123

Baby Vegeta Base = Base
SBV1 = SSJ2
SBV2 = SSJ3?

I ask because those Baby Vegeta forms look like those SSJ forms. Also it appears that Baby Vegeta's boost to SBV1 is greater than SBV1's boost to SBV2.

What do you think?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

There isn't a single source that says SSJ4 is stronger than Golden Oozaru either

Super Saiyan 4
The form which draws out the battle power which Saiyans posses out to the utmost limits is this, Super Saiyan 4!! It’s distinguished by having a different appearance than previous Super Saiyans, with red body fur and long black hair!! It is called Super Saiyan 4 out of convenience, but due to it being a transformation from Golden Oozaru, it would be no exaggeration to call it a different species from all previous Super Saiyans!! Thinking of it as a different species, you could also name such points as the fact that unlike with 3 he has an adult appearance, despite being a transformation of little Goku.

Golden Oozaru is the basis of its super power!!
After succeeding in regenerating his tail, Goku transformed into the mightiest and most violent Golden Oozaru, devoid of reason, who carried out nothing but destruction!! When this Golden Oozaru gained a human heart, the result was the birth of the mightiest of warriors, Super Saiyan 4, who combines reason with tremendous power!!

] A red flash!! The ultimate Super Saiyan, who has achieved a super evolution!!!

If Golden Oozaru brought a Saiyan's battle power to its utmost limits, saying the same for SS4 as well as referring to it as the mightiest warrior and strongest form would be a tad redundant. On top of that, the damage Baby was receiving from SS4 Galu's punches were far more significant than the direct hits he took from Golden Oozaru Goku. It should also be worth noting the context surrounding the narration of Goku having his hidden power drawn out, being that he was accessing a form he couldn't willingly tap into.

 

[Papasmurf]

If Golden Oozaru brought a Saiyan's battle power to its utmost limits, saying the same for SS4 as well as referring to it as the mightiest warrior and strongest form would be a tad redundant. On top of that, the damage Baby was receiving from SS4 Galu's punches were far more significant than the direct hits he took from Golden Oozaru Goku. It should also be worth noting the context surrounding the narration of Goku having his hidden power drawn out, being that he was accessing a form he couldn't willingly tap into.

SSJ4 is faster than Golden Oozaru and has the power of reason though, plus it probably has better stamina than GO due to Galu's body only made into an adult in SSJ4 (which has been shown to mitigate strain compared to a child body). It's superior for the same reason SSJ2 is superior to Grade 3, even though some material suggests Grade 3's multiplier from Grade 1 may be greater than the 2x boost from going SSJ2. The Trunks Anime Comics SSJ forms guide even called SSJ2 the ultimate final form of SSJ (since SSJ3 at the time didn't exist even in 's mind). Plus, Golden Oozaru Galu was unfocused and wild when he hit Super Baby, while SSJ4 Galu had full control over his mind and Ki. The way it describes how SSJ4 is the power of Golden Oozaru combined with a human heart and reason, rather than it being openly stated that the control granted a power boost like Kale mastering her LSSJ state makes it dubious that there is any large power boost. If there was one, it would be noted since GT's Perfect Files treat SSJ2 as a form that was near-forgotten for having a less "rapid" power boost than SSJ3, but still notes it is above SSJ in all ways all the same.

 

[SIAD]

@Captain Cadaver @Kenshi

SBV2 increased its power in chapter 32 of DBGT when it received the energy of the humans to finish with Oob?

I'm thinking that it may have increased its power a bit, not by much because it kept its form. Something similar to when Moro absorbed energy, but kept his shape.

Perhaps it can be said that no one commented that it turned on, however the only one present was Mr. Boo. Also when Baby Vegeta went from being SBV1 to SBV2 no one commented either.

What do you think?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Kenshi @GreatSaiyaman123

Baby Vegeta Base = Base
SBV1 = SSJ2
SBV2 = SSJ3?

I ask because those Baby Vegeta forms look like those SSJ forms. Also it appears that Baby Vegeta's boost to SBV1 is greater than SBV1's boost to SBV2.

What do you think?

I think Base Baby Vegeta is SSJ1. Otherwise I think his hair colour would change when he turns into SBV1.

 

[SIAD]

I think Base Baby Vegeta is SSJ1. Otherwise I think his hair colour would change when he turns into SBV1.

Can be. My only problem is with having exactly the same multiplier of SSJ with the multiplier of the transformations of Baby Vegeta.

Baby Vegeta Base would be Vegeta Base's power + Baby's power and he clearly needs a multiplier much higher than 2.5x to reach Baby Vegeta First Form's power.

 

[Southern Gothic]

x500 imo

 

[Future Warrior]

Isn't it simply an Oozaru going SSJ?

 

[SSJ2]

I'm not sure that Gold Oozaru = SSJ4. When SSJ4 Goku initially fought Baby it was became evident that he was holding back most of his power. Wouldn't somebody have noticed if his ki became far smaller than it was as a Gold Oozaru?