Is AT jealous of Eiichiro Oda?

[Papasmurf]

Even Galu as a character changed between the Piccolo Daimao and Saiyan/Freeza arcs, and he was absent for most of the latter two arcs lol. Modern Luffy is just the same old happy go lucky buffoon he was in Part 1, doing the exact same dumb shit he did in Thriller Bark.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I see Luffy's changed but I guess I'm just stupid. Goku's become a degenerate. End of.

Not saddest of all but sad nonetheless AT's become an utter hack.

And most importantly AT is jealous of Eiichiro Oda also for coming-up with his own original grand story, instead of shamelessly ripping-off, Journey to the West, Super-Man 1 & 2, Star-Wars, Terminator you name it.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

And most importantly AT is jealous of Eiichiro Oda also for coming-up with his own original grand story, instead of shamelessly ripping-off, Journey to the West, Super-Man 1 & 2, Star-Wars, Terminator you name it.

Paying tribute =/= Ripping off. The similarities to Journey to the West lie solely in slight character inspiration and plot structure for the first arc, whereas they're far different in tone and character personalities. The Superman similarities stop at Goku/Superman being sent to Earth and their birth names starting with K, the motivation of sending them to Earth being polar opposites. The Terminator = Cell Arc comparison is true to an extent, but not quite so when time travel works completely different in both series.

If that's enough to cite DB as ripping off other works, then you must also say the same for Oda with a large amount of the cast being inspired by celebrities and many of the locations, races and their terminology being taken from various mythologies.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Vegeta and Nappa coming to earth for Goku sounds like something I saw in a Super-Man movie once. Some evil gai from Klark Klent's planet. Rip-off.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Zod's trio was a lot different from the Saiyan trio in design and personality, their motivations for coming to Earth were a lot different (Nappa and Vegeta were in it only for the DBs) and the way in which they were fought was a lot different to how Nappa and Vegeta were fought.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I mean if you take-out most of the superficial stuff (designs) and look at the basic premise it kind-of does seem like a rip-off.

 

[Papasmurf]

Nothing in Dragon Ball was as bad of a shameless rip off as Naruto ripping off the Hunter Exams arc or the entirety of Bleach in general.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Looking at just the superficial, OP "rips off" far more through its character designs and terminology. The Tatamebako, Ryugu Palace and Otohime from the Fishman Island Arc are all taken straight from Japanese mythology (more specifically, The Tale of Urashima Taro), Brook could be seen as a Jack Skellington ripoff if viewed only at the surface level, etc.

I mean, one of the recent characters was even called Batman.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

No-one ever said anything good about Naruto anyway.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I can't comment on those since I've never been that far in but One-Piece doesn't. DragonBall has done so many times. It's like AT's characters each Saga role-playing characters from other films/series/mythologies l0l. I guess one thing he didn't rip-off was designs, even-though come to think of it 3rd Form Freeza was a complete Alien rip-off design-wise.

 

[SSJ2]

He's jelly.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Pocket-Cock you are officially ignored.

Please -Sama, forgive me.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

He's jelly.

I agree.

As for the post below you are forgiven but still ignored in this thread. Now please don't cry anymore.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

DragonBall has done so many times. It's like AT's characters each Saga role-playing characters from other films/series/mythologies l0l. I guess one thing he didn't rip-off was designs, even-though come to think of it 3rd Form Freeza was a complete Alien rip-off design-wise.

I'd say that's a gross exaggeration, aside from perhaps Future Trunks (and even then, he's a very poor man's John Connor). Most of the similarities to other works in the characters' personalities comes as the result of several roles being archetypical such as Roshi's role as a mentor or Freeza's role as a tyrant. Whenever Toriyama brought in a character clearly inspired by another work, there was always a twist to their personality such as Gyumao being a friendly giant or Roshi's perverted nature making him a twist on the wild old master trope.

Again, if the design is such a strong area of contention then this applies double for OP with how many of its character designs were inspired from a multitude of sources and if drawing just as thin a line of what constitutes as a "ripoff", you could make just as many grand claims in the inspiration behind some characters such as saying Luffy is a Goku ripoff, Nami is a Fujiko Mine ripoff, etc. of which you could imply double when some later characters basically become rehashes of previous characters within the series (Hody being a poor meng's Arlong, Doflamingo being a less intelligent Crocodile, etc.)

Nothing in Dragon Ball was as bad of a shameless rip off as Naruto ripping off the Hunter Exams arc or the entirety of Bleach in general.

To be fair on Naruto, the Chunin Exams were at least a unique take on the Hunter Exams in several ways, since it had more of a focus on showing variety in its cast and making it seem as though most of the competitors had the chance of passing, whereas the Hunter Exams made it apparent Gon's group, Hisoka and Illumi were the only ones who mattered to the plot. Chunin Exams also had an extra bit of interest in how it acted as a way of showing how fragile the peace was between each of the nations. Also, in terms of plagarism in comparison to unique ideas, it's at least far better than the Hero Exams of My Ripoff Academia was.

Bleach could kind of be defended for its first arc in that it had a lot more focus on what the battles between the Hollows meant for the characters involved than YYH did, though its far harder to defend the basic premise following so many story beats of YYH and impossible to defend for the later arcs when they abandon the one premise that made Detergent somewhat unique.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I give him some credit I guess for subverting some tropes but he still passed some stories which were obviously ripped-off (with just slight differences which I guess is more down to AT's different style and different culture). Also I think you meant wise old meng.

Luffy is not a Goku rip-off. He's more intelligent. His design isn't either. He started-out the series as a 17 year old.

I don't think an author can rip-off his own work, more like a retread.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I give him some credit I guess for subverting some tropes but he still passed some stories which were obviously ripped-off (with just slight differences which I guess is more down to AT's different style and different culture).

You could say that for a lot of OP's later arcs if using premise as such a determining factor though. Thriller Bark can be seen as drawing a number of inspirations from various works of horror in a campy way, many of Fishmeng Island's additions are taken straight from Japanese mythology (and a lot of the parts of the plot to do with racism being heavily inspired by the Black movements in the 50s and 60s), Wholecake Island taking a lot of inspiration from fairy tales, etc.

Also I think you meant wise old meng.

I have committed sacrilege.

Luffy is not a Goku rip-off. He's more intelligent. His design isn't either. He started-out the series as a 17 year old.

Then you agree Nappa and Vegeta aren't ripoffs of Zod's group?

I don't think an author can rip-off his own work, more like a retread.

If a slight lacking of originality is enough to constitute a ripoff, then rehashing previous ideas is just as bad.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

If those are your own ideas then at-least you've shown originality before. They kind of are though or at-least the story, gais from a long destroyed planet come to earth where our hero now lives-on and they are all the only survivors of the planet (I think in Super-Man at-least).

Plz gimmie some examples.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

If those are your own ideas then at-least you've shown originality before.

Implying Toriyama never had any original ideas?

I fail to see how the Piccolo Daimao or Freeza Arcs could be seen as ripoffs of anything, save for some Star Wars inspiration in the healing chambers of the latter (which is more a staple of sci-fi in general). You could say their plots weren't anything overly unique as the idea of unsealed evil threats has been a constant in Asian storytelling for centuries and saving the galaxy from a tyrant has been a common idea ever since Flash Gordon, but if we're setting the bar for originality that high, it's not as though a story about saving a country from a schemer attempting to cause chaos and usurp its leader or saving a land from a ruler with a god complex have never been done before either.

Execution matters far more than premise, and DB executed most of its ideas well enough to be more than just riding on another's success.

They kind of are though or at-least the story, gais from a long destroyed planet come to earth where our hero now lives-on and they are all the only survivors of the planet (I think in Super-Man at-least).

Only in a simple enough premise that you can boil things down to very simple connections, enough that I could also say Luffy is a Goku ripoff. Both are lacking when it comes to general knowledge, but fighting geniuses. Both had their main goal ingrained in them through a mentor figure they looked up to. Both like to eat copious amounts of food. Both do fairly selfish things with poor hindsight. If you make enough connections, anything can seem as a ripoff.

As I've said, there are many things that make Nappa and Vegeta different from Zod's gang. Their main motivation was far different as more so than wanting to just defeat Goku and conquer Earth, their main priority was just getting the Dragon Balls. Vegeta was the prince of their race, whilst Zod was just a general. Zod had some history with Jor-El whilst Vegeta probably never even heard of Bardock. Goku overcomes Vegeta through his training and teamwork, whereas Superman overcomes Zod through...plot necessity I guess.

Plz gimmie some examples.

Examples of?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I forgot myself. I guess I was asking for the One-Piece related things you talked about. Like inspired.

I think it's grossly oversimplifying things saying that about One-Piece. One-Piece had done (if you've seen it before I haven't maybe you can tell me) the evil gai trying to take-over a country story done really good. It's not just simple evil gai trying to take-over, which it'd have been had AT tried his hands at it. There are many intricacies and multiple plots running at the same time. The only time I can ever remember seeing DragonBall do the multiple story-lines at the same time was in the Piccolo-Daimao saga (when Goku & Yajirobe went to get the water & Tenshinhan tried to stop Piccolo-Daimao), not counting stuff like Goku training or being on the way for a fight because that's cheap.

Luffy is not a Goku rip-off though. Goku always had fighting blood in him as a Saiyan so he always craved to be the strongest anyway like Vegeta (well maybe not because I don't know about other Saiyans) but it seems logical enough. It's not just because Master Roshi or Grand-Pa Gohan that Goku wanted to become a Martial-Artist. Luffy has shown great intelligence before. Luffy is more goofy than stupid. Goku kind-of lacks in anything other than fighting.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I think it's grossly oversimplifying things saying that about One-Piece. One-Piece had done (if you've seen it before I haven't maybe you can tell me) the evil gai trying to take-over a country story done really good. It's not just simple evil gai trying to take-over, which it'd have been had AT tried his hands at it. There are many intricacies and multiple plots running at the same time. The only time I can ever remember seeing DragonBall do the multiple story-lines at the same time was in the Piccolo-Daimao saga (when Goku & Yajirobe went to get the water & Tenshinhan tried to stop Piccolo-Daimao), not counting stuff like Goku training or being on the way for a fight because that's cheap.

I agree to this. My point, however, was that its a very large exaggeration to say most of Dragon Ball was just ripping off other works with its story and if stripping things down to the bare bones of a premise, the same could be done for OP as its premises are ones that have been done in some form before. The execution, however, is that of its own and the same can be said of Dragon Ball.

As I said before, execution matters far more than premise when it comes to originality, as it's nigh-impossible to find a work that isn't in some way inspired by something else. The execution of those ideas and how the work differentiates itself from another is what separates the inspired from the ripoffs.

Luffy is not a Goku rip-off though. Goku always had fighting blood in him as a Saiyan so he always craved to be the strongest anyway like Vegeta (well maybe not because I don't know about other Saiyans) but it seems logical enough. It's not just because Master Roshi or Grand-Pa Gohan that Goku wanted to become a Martial-Artist. Luffy has shown great intelligence before. Luffy is more goofy than stupid. Goku kind-of lacks in anything other than fighting.

As I said before, this was me going down to the same basic level of a simple premise to cite them as a ripoff to show the double standards you're using. I agree that Luffy isn't a complete ripoff of Goku. It was merely a way to show why citing Toriyama as "ripping off" other works is very inaccurate.

However, I disagree with your stance on Goku. Whilst his Saiyan blood became a reasoning for his actions from the Freeza Arc and onwards, the original DB paints the picture that Roshi's advice could've heavily impacted Goku's attitude towards training after the 21st TB. Also, saying Goku is dumber than Luffy is quite inaccurate as well, at least up until the Cell Arc. Kid Goku showed multiple times his ability to think critically such as pouring hot water into Murasaki's reed and being able to improve his social skills as he became more used to society, such as being able to tell Upa was male. Goku's lacking of knowledge is also excused by him spending the key years of his developmental stages of life in the wilderness by himself. By comparison, Luffy was offered a lot of social and education opportunities in his life and it's very rare he's shown to have intelligence for anything other than battle, especially as the story gets further on.