Is this proof that Freeza>19?

Lightsworn

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Kyo said:
If you have another interpretation to Krillin's quote then what is it? Why is he using Freeza of all people to hype up Cell?
I don't think it's totally power-related (though it is somewhat power-related, in a way, more on that later). It's more character-related, though that's a bit of a poor way to word it. I think it's more related to Cell's intentions, like Clearin has already said. #17 and #18 are stronger than Freeza and more threatening from purely a power perspective for instance, but they didn't even want to do anything besides have fun and kill one major character.

Think about it. Just the statement on its own. "Terrible" is often a way to describe huge power, but it seems pointless to ask "are you ready to take someone stronger than Freeza?" knowing that Goku had quite literally planned out the last 3 years for exactly that, and yet Kuririn does ask that, so I don't believe it's as concrete as "are you ready to take someone stronger than Freeza?" It adds even less - if you interpret from a pure power sense - when Piccolo had already asked a more effective version of the question earlier: "You ready for these androids?", "I dunno, I'll know when I get there." It already goes without saying that he is excited and afraid of someone stronger than Freeza. Actually, I take that back - it goes with saying, before Goku even trained: http://i.imgur.com/Bxp2AML.jpg

Not everything has to lead to a strict power chain.

I've given my reason why he doesn't mean Freeza > 17/18. I'll say it again just in case. Cell can potentially take out the andoids, so Cell is their new biggest threat, he can be grouped with the androids. Since 17 and 18 are acknowledged in the conversation we know Kuririn isn't saying Freeza > 17 and 18. That's the conclusion you'd come to if you don't pay attention to the context. So what's your interpretation? Freeza is still being used in the context of power within a dire situation. Not 19 or 20. So why should we assume 19 and 20 are stronger?
I'm not saying to assume 19/20 are stronger without evidence, I'm just saying that the line doesn't necessarily mean they are. In fact, if this line was the only piece of evidence about their power, then I would agree with you because then there's just no other option.

Like I said above, I don't see the statement as much of a power statement. It's kind of a power statement, but only in the sense that beating Cell will be challenging to the current set of Z fighters, much like how beating Freeza was a challenge to the past set of Z fighters on Namek, if that makes sense. Otherwise, it's mostly just saying that Cell is an awful villain of comparable status to Freeza, or worse than him, rather. Otherwise it's just a wonky, pointless statement that feels out of place to me.
I would agree had Krilin actually asked that question "Are you ready to take on someone stronger than Freeza?" But he doesn't ask that. He says that Cell is more terrible than Freeza and asks if that scares him or not. It's said in a way that that someone before that had not surpassed Freeza. Saying "This thing is even stronger than that android you fought, does that excite you or scare you? Now that would make complete sense and would be the perfect way to hype up Cell. It would almost be like hyping up Beerus by saying he is even stronger than Cell instead of saying he is stronger than Boo. It just doesn't make much sense in the context of the whole situation.

Even if you want to take the word terrible to not just power, 19 and 20 are more terrible than Freeza anyway. 20 immediately tried to kill yamcha and they made it very clear they were planning on killing Goku and the Z fighters right away. Freeza toyed and never showed his full power until the very end.

19 and 20 would logicallly be used to add effect to the dire situation by Tien, Kami, and Krillin because that would make the most sense. When you're trying to hype up how strong a villain is, you use the second strongest villain as a comparison naturally. What purpose is there to use a villain that is far weaker?
 

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Have we established that:

Organic Frieza >> Android 19 Post > Android 20 Post > Goku (Kaio-Kenx20) > Android 19 Pre > Android 20 Pre

?
 

kriss-

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Fantastische Hure said:
h0kuten said:
Have we established that:

Organic Frieza >> Android 19 Post > Android 20 Post > Goku (Kaio-Kenx20) > Android 19 Pre > Android 20 Pre

?
not rly
Hmm, I see no reason for them to be weaker. They never really did anything impressive anyways. The best was making Vegeta draw blood. The gap between Vegeta & Android 19 is the same gap between Vegeta & Semi-Perfect Cell.

Vegeta: 360
Piccolo: 300

Android 19 Post: 250
Android 20 Post: 200

Frieza: 120

Android 19 Pre: 80
Android 20 Pre: 90
 

Fantastische Hure

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h0kuten said:
Fantastische Hure said:
h0kuten said:
Have we established that:

Organic Frieza >> Android 19 Post > Android 20 Post > Goku (Kaio-Kenx20) > Android 19 Pre > Android 20 Pre

?
not rly
Hmm, I see no reason for them to be weaker. They never really did anything impressive anyways. The best was making Vegeta draw blood. The gap between Vegeta & Android 19 is the same gap between Vegeta & Semi-Perfect Cell.
plz tell me how well 100% freeza'd do against android-saga goku or vegeta

i'm sure they'd be near equal right?! :$ :$ :$
 

Fantastische Hure

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h0kuten said:
No, Frieza would get effortlessly one shotted.
see now it's making sense

android #19 did no better, but that still doesn't mean freeza is stronger

since neither of them stood (or would have stand) a chance
 

kriss-

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Android 19 made Vegeta draw blood. Organic Frieza could do no such thing to Vegeta Ssj. Although, it was after he absorbed Goku's energy.

Prior to absorbing anybodies energy, Android 20 was moved from Base Goku's punch. That makes them pretty weak to begin with.

Goku's Ssj wasn't as impressive as it should have been, Piccolo caught on to that. He was also weakening quickly. So an argument can be made that they don't necessarily have to be stronger than Frieza.
 

Fantastische Hure

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h0kuten said:
Prior to absorbing anybodies energy, Android 20 was moved from Base Goku's punch. That makes them pretty weak to begin with.

h0kuten said:
No, Frieza would get effortlessly one shotted.

You said Freeza'd get one-shotted, though, and last I remember Android #19 didn't. :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

Goku was still close to full-power at the beginning of the fight, Piccolo said so.

Also by what's implied he's still defintely stronger than he was before the training (post-Yadrat), who'd one-shot Freeza too. :$ :$ :$
 

FutureProtagonist

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Prior to absorbing anybodies energy, Android 20 was moved from Base Goku's punch. That makes them pretty weak to begin with.
Android #19 was moved by Vegeta's kick, but drew blood from him in SSJ.
 

Papasmurf

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Piccolo kicked away 50% Freeza, but that doesn't make them anywhere near close in power.
 

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Kenshi said:
Piccolo kicked away 50% Freeza, but that doesn't make them anywhere near close in power.
That was an off guard attack. Android 20 was completely on guard.

Android 19 being kicked from Vegeta was also an off guard attack.
 

Papasmurf

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Also in the middle of firing a laser attack in a different direction. He's defenseless either way.
 

Southern Gothic

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Vegeta drew blood on Beerus at 10% of his power. Which is much more of a gap than what exists between 19 and any of the SSJ's at the time.
 

Pyro

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So...#20 knows Goku is standing nearby, and because of that, he's automatically considered on-guard no matter what?

Real-life example: I show up to someone's house because their boyfriend has a knife and is threatening to kill everyone. Me and my partner round up the inhabitants, including the boyfriend who we keep in a separate room right next to the living room with the others. So I'm standing in the bedroom watching the boyfriend, my gun is drawn, and then I decide to turn and ask the girlfriend something. The boyfriend jumps up and punches me in the face, staggering me a bit. Was I on-guard for that attack just because I knew the guy was near me? I wouldn't consider myself on-guard, but I guess if you do, then we've got different definitions.
 

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Beerus was suppressed to the level of 10% power. This means his durability was also depleted to that magnitude of power. That specific feat holds no authority over fighters who are at 100% power.

Android 20 was in the midst of clearing the city and obviously recognizes that Goku is about to attack him. It seems likely that he would brace himself for the attack. Other-wise, the Piccolo kicking Frieza feat would have been played over again.
 

Fantastische Hure

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h0kuten said:
Beerus was suppressed to the level of 10% power. This means his durability was also depleted to that magnitude of power. That specific feat holds no authority over fighters who are at 100% power.

Android 20 was in the midst of clearing the city and obviously recognizes that Goku is about to attack him. It seems likely that he would brace himself for the attack. Other-wise, the Piccolo kicking Frieza feat would have been played over again.
u jst said that his durability was also depleted to wtvr he suppressed his powers to

so ye it does mean something here

u admitted urself there
 

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