Kid Buu vs Super Buu

[Ryuzaki]

Vegeta may have room to toughen up because he isn't a Ssj3 and Ssj2 doesn't kill the body like Ssj3 does. So it's not impossible to see Vegeta closing in on Goku like he said he would.

Regardless Vegeta says strongest so it's not a reference to their rivalry.

Further-more, Vegeta wasn't portrayed as the 2nd strongest in Db Super. He didn't do anything of the sort.

He clearly said that he's number 2 in the same statement. You can interpret it as a general power statement or he's just comparing himself to Goku for their rivalry. I lean towards the latter, though.

He may be the number 2 now. But not before-hand for already stated reasons.

Nothing wrong with that.

Except that he said that Goku was number 1 after he admitted that he surpassed him back in Boo Saga, which clearly implies that he thought that he was number 1 before Goku proved him wrong.

Moreover, he stated that he acknowledged Goku as the number 1 (a clear call back to his statement in Boo Saga), but won't stay number 2.

So, SSJ2 Vegeta = number 2 in Boo Saga.

 

[Papasmurf]

But then how is Goku still weaker than an evil version of Boo and needs to train?

Why does Goku think simply bringing Gohan and Gotenks over will be an easy way to get rid of Kid Boo if they're that much weaker than himself?

 

[p123]

If Vegeta couldn't sense Gotenks and Gohan's power, I think it would make this all make sense.

 

[kriss-]

He never said it would be an easy victory.

Vegeta states Goku is the better in their rivalry then Toriyama has Vegeta state that AFTER Goku defeats Buu he BECAME the strongest on Earth.

So the two statements do not go hand in hand and are talking about 2 completely different things.

Hopefully that takes care of the 'rivalry' argument.

 

[Papasmurf]

Except that he said that Goku was number 1 after he admitted that he surpassed him back in Boo Saga, which clearly implies that he thought that he was number 1 before Goku proved him wrong.

Moreover, he stated that he acknowledged Goku as the number 1 (a clear call back to his statement in Boo Saga), but won't stay number 2.

So, SSJ2 Vegeta = number 2 in Boo Saga.

Or... we could just go with this explanation and avoid causing a bunch of inconsistencies with the implied and shown power rankings/feats in the entire Boo arc.

 

[Ryuzaki]

He never said it would be an easy victory.

Vegeta states Goku is the better in their rivalry then Toriyama has Vegeta state that AFTER Vegeta defeats Buu he became the strongest on Earth.

So the two statements do not go hand in hand and are talking about 2 completely different things.

Hopefully that takes care of the 'rivalry' argument.

Kakarot, you’re quite impressive. I never stood a chance against Buu, you’re the only one who can fight him. I think I finally understand how a genius like myself can’t surpass you. I thought it was because you had something to protect. I thought your drive to protect allowed you to take advantage of your capabilities… this may have been a reason, but not I too have this drive. I fought to do as I wished, because it was fun to kill my enemies and feed my pride. But he’s different, he fights not to win but because he absolutely won’t lose, causing him to break his limits and he really doesn’t care who his opponent is. So when he didn’t kill me, it was because he saw I could care for others, like I do now… Go Kakarot, you’re number one!

Don't see what is that much different from what he says in episode 2. In the end, Vegeta simply says that Goku is number 1 because he proved that he's much stronger than him. If this kind of quote didn't convinced us back then, it won't convince us now T0sh.

Goku (Boo) > Mystic Gohan (Boo) isn't a fact, but an interpretation.

 

[Papasmurf]

So tosh, a question for you: Toriyama calls Goku the "strongest man who continues to be the strongest" in newer material - does that make him more powerful than Whis and Beerus who are shown to be a good deal stronger than him?

 

[p123]

What's the quote from DB Super?

 

[kriss-]

Also, anytime any huge increases are made we're shown and told about it.

Nothing of the sort happened here so it's only logical to assume it never happened.

Vegeta states Goku is the better between them and abandons his rivalry.

Vegeta then states Goku became the strongest upon Kid Buu's defeat.

This essentially says the only person stronger than Goku was Kid Buu.

The two statements do not go hand in hand because it's speaking about more than just Goku and Vegeta.

 

[Papasmurf]

What's the quote from DB Super?

Vegeta says that Goku became the #1 after defeating Boo, but he won't be #2 forever.

 

[kriss-]

And that doesn't change much.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

[No message]

 

[kriss-]

Goku became the #1 in the UNIVERSE. So it's including everybody and not just himself & Goku.

Kapeesh?

 

[FutureProtagonist]

I don't actually see "universe" in that quote.

 

[Papasmurf]

Goku became the #1 in the UNIVERSE. So it's including everybody and not just himself & Goku.

Kapeesh?

Inform us about how that doesn't contradict his statement that he needs to further train to defeat an evil Boo one-on-one after just getting this "huge increase"

 

[kriss-]

Ssj3 draws a user to their limits. Ssj2 doesn't. So a logical argument can be made that Vegeta still has limits to be seen and thus became #2.

 

[Ryuzaki]

[No message]

 

[FutureProtagonist]

Is the "universe" thing just fansubbers with an agenda? Herms doesn't have that.

 

[kriss-]

So if Vegeta killed Buu in some miraculous way, Vegeta Ssj2 would be stronger than Goku Ssj3 upon Kid Buu's defeat?

Nah, it makes more sense to take it as Kid Buu being the only one stronger than him. Even so many years after the Buu Saga and living by Gohan, Vegeta doesn't change his perception.

 

[Papasmurf]

Gotenks also has SSJ3 and is presented as weaker than Gohan.