M10 LSSj Broly's power

[Spiral-Force]

You claimed that Broly/Gohan gap is small because of their fight which I respond that its just inconsistent but if we use their fight to determine their gap then the gap would be big.

I never said that. I actually said that the gap was significant, but not as big as you're making it out to be. You're assuming that because I don't have the gap as big as you do, that automatically makes the gap small.

That Vegeta was able to put a good fight against him despite being a SSj2 tier while Janemba is a SSJ3 tier?

Good fight? He avoided a heavily suppressed kick and landed 1 off guard attack, then got stomped. Since Janemba was obviously suppressed, he doesn't have to be restricted to "SSJ3 tier".

That's debatale but its more likely that Goku was there given that he was shown to be there with his children unlike against Cell that was telephatic.

In the anime (when the Z Fighters were saying goodbye to Future Trunks), Goku patted Gohan's shoulder, and Gohan felt the sensation, even though Goku wasn't physically there.

 

[SSJ2]

Why the heck would Gohan be referring to any other time period than Movie 8? He didn't say that he was stronger than he was seven years ago, he said that he'd powered up considerably since then (then being the last time he saw Broly).

I just don't view it as logical, as Gohan was stronger than his current state some 7 years ago, but he says he powered up.

Gohan was the weakest one arguably in M8, so I don't see why he'd be comparing himself to that time. That's just how I view it I guess.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I never said that. I actually said that the gap was significant, but not as big as you're making it out to be. You're assuming that because I don't have the gap as big as you do, that automatically makes the gap small.

Um, you claimed that their gap is significant because of their feats.

Good fight? He avoided a heavily suppressed kick and landed 1 off guard attack, then got stomped. Since Janemba was obviously suppressed, he doesn't have to be restriced to "SSJ3 tier".

Vegeta was able to hold himself against Janemba but still get destroyed so no argument here.

In the anime (when the Z Fighters were saying goodbye to Future Trunks), Goku patted Gohan's shoulder, and Gohan felt the sensation, even though Goku wasn't physically there.

But M10 case, Goku was fighting along side with his children by kamehameha which proves that he was there during the struggle.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Um, you claimed that their gap is significant because of their feats.

Yeah, and?

But M10 case, Goku was fighting along side with his children by kamehameha which proves that he was there during the struggle.

We saw Goku behind SSJ2 Kid Gohan during the final beam struggle, and it looked like he was contributing to the blast, but we know that he wasn't actually there.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Yeah, and?

And their feats are meaningless to judge their gap.

We saw Goku behind SSJ2 Kid Gohan during the final beam struggle, and it looked like he was contributing to the blast, but we know that he wasn't actually there.

But it was shown he was speaking to Gohan from the Afterlife which contradict of him being there with Gohan physically and that is different in M10.

 

[Spiral-Force]

And their feats are meaningless to judge their gap.

In your opinion. Feats being "meaningless" isn't a fact, and it contradicts some points that you made earlier.

But it was shown he was speaking to Gohan from the Afterlife which contradict of him being there with Gohan physically and that is different in M10.

Why can't it be interpreted that Goku was speaking from the afterlife in M10?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

In your opinion. Feats being "meaningless" isn't a fact, and it contradicts some points that you made earlier.

I used those feats to contradict your argument.

Why can't it be interpreted that Goku was speaking from the afterlife in M10?

The purpose of DB is to bring Goku to Earth and help Gohan and Goten against Broly as he was shown coming down from Afterlife and unlike against Cell.

 

[Tapion]

Actually, Goku's feet made a sound when he landed close to Gohan and Goten, and Broly saw him. Not to mention Goten asked for Shenron to bring Goku to the fight, so i'm pretty sure there is plenty of evidence of Goku being really there for a few seconds...however, he was only a SSj imo

 

[Spiral-Force]

I used those feats to contradict your argument.

I didn't make a contradiction.

The purpose of DB is to bring Goku to Earth and help Gohan and Goten against Broly as he was shown coming down from Afterlife and unlike against Cell.

Since Goku can be seen behind Gohan in the Gohan vs Cell Kamehameha clash, despite not physically being there, it could be argued that Goku's wasn't physically amongst Gohan and Goten in M10. Shenron not making any type of appearance to actually grant Goten's wish reinforces this.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Actually, Goku's feet made a sound when he landed close to Gohan and Goten

So did Goku's hand when he patted Gohan's shoulder.

and Broly saw him.

When you consider the surface area of Broly's blast, it's illogical for him to have "seen" Goku.

Not to mention Goten asked for Shenron to bring Goku to the fight

When did Shenron appear, let alone grant Goten's wish?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I didn't make a contradiction.

Yes you did, how did you know that their gap is significant in the first place? Because of their feats but this is Toei where feats don't matter.

Since Goku can be seen behind Gohan in the Gohan vs Cell Kamehameha clash, despite not physically being being there, it could be argued that Goku's wasn't physically amongst Gohan and Goten in M10. Shenron not making any type of appearance to actually grant Goten's wish reinforces this.

This is Toei, Goku was there as @HUEBR_Tapion mentioned.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Yes you did, how did you know that their gap is significant in the first place? Because of their feats but this is Toei where feats don't matter.

Significant (Adjective): Sufficiently great or important to be worthy of attention; noteworthy.

- Oxford Dictionary

Broly had a clear upperhand, so the gap was significant. I just don't think it's as big as you're saying. Again, feats being meaningless isn't a fact, so don't pass it off as one.

This is Toei, Goku was there as @HUEBR_Tapion mentioned.

I countered his post handily.

 

[Tapion]

Actually, Goku's feet made a sound when he landed close to Gohan and Goten

So did Goku's hand when he patted Gohan's shoulder.

and Broly saw him.

When you consider the surface area of Broly's blast, it's illogical for him to have "seen" Goku.

Not to mention Goten asked for Shenron to bring Goku to the fight

When did Shenron appear, let alone grant Goten's wish?

About 2, it's also illogical for people to be able to form destructive energy balls in their hands, and yet they do just that in the DBverse. Broly said "Kakarotto" seconds after Goku landed there. Why would Broly see him if he wasn't really there?

About 3, the Dragon Balls dispersed after Broly was defeated, which means a wish was made. I know Shenron didn't appear, but it's Toei land. Anything can happen.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Broly said "Kakarotto" seconds after Goku landed there. Why would Broly see him if he wasn't really there?

Broly likely just heard Goku's voice.

About 3, the Dragon Balls dispersed after Broly was defeated, which means a wish was made. I know Shenron didn't appear, but it's Toei land. Anything can happen.

That's the weird part, Shenron is MASSIVE yet he didn't appear at all during the movie.

Even the narrator questioned what happened.

DBZ Movie 10
Time: 50:07
Context: The narrator questions Goku's mysterious appearance
Narrator: "What exactly was that image of Goku? Was it a miracle of the Dragon Balls? Or was it just a momentary apparition? That is something nobody can tell."

What also makes me think that Goku's appearance wasn't physical was the mysterious white aura around him. But to each his own I suppose.

 

[Tapion]

@Spiral-Force i think that what confirms Goku was really there is the fact his Kamehameha fused with Gohan and Goten's in that last beam struggle. If he wasn't there, then it would have looked the same as before imo.

 

[Spiral-Force]

@Spiral-Force i think that what confirms Goku was really there is the fact his Kamehameha fused with Gohan and Goten's in that last beam struggle. If he wasn't there, then it would have looked the same as before imo.

Perhaps hearing and seeing Goku was enough to further power up their blasts, twice. Also, the time gap between Goten's cry for help and Goku appearing was roughly 9 seconds. It seems far-fetched for Shenron to address Goten that quickly. And the question of "how did Shenron hear Goten?" arises, as Goten was speaking in his head.

Furthermore, Goku's second question below further reinforces that he wasn't really there with them:

DBZ Movie 10
Time: 46:51
Context: Goku asks rhetorical questions
Goku: "It is fine with you guys if the Earth is smashed to pieces by Broly?! Can't you protect it if I ain't around?!"

 

[Tapion]

@Spiral-Force i think that what confirms Goku was really there is the fact his Kamehameha fused with Gohan and Goten's in that last beam struggle. If he wasn't there, then it would have looked the same as before imo.

Perhaps hearing and seeing Goku was enough to further power up their blasts, twice. Also, the time gap between Goten's cry for help and Goku appearing was roughly 9 seconds. It seems far-fetched for Shenron to address Goten that quickly. And the question of "how did Shenron hear Goten?" arises, as Goten was speaking in his head.

Furthermore, Goku's second question below further reinforces that he wasn't really there with them:

DBZ Movie 10
Time: 46:51
Context: Goku asks rhetorical questions
Goku: "It is fine with you guys if the Earth is smashed to pieces by Broly?! Can't you protect it if I ain't around?!"

Shenron granted King Piccolo's wish in seconds. 9 seconds is no problem. Shenron hearing Goten is probably another Toei-world thing. Overall, the bigger context of the scene tells us Shenron granted his wish. There is nothing against it, really.

For Goku's question, i don't think appearing for a few dozen seconds is considered "being around" to protect the Earth.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Shenron granted King Piccolo's wish in seconds. 9 seconds is no problem. Shenron hearing Goten is probably another Toei-world thing. Overall, the bigger context of the scene tells us Shenron granted his wish. There is nothing against it, really.

It's ambiguous. Even if Shenron "somehow" heard Goten, it's possible that Shenron decided to make Goku appear in spirit. The reason for that is to get the message across that Goku won't always be around to solve problems physically, but he can give people mental support to boost their confidence. My basis for this is Gohan's final bout with Cell, as there are remarkably similar themes represented within the Cell Games KHH clash and M10 beam struggle.

For Goku's question, i don't think appearing for a few dozen seconds is considered "being around" to protect the Earth.

It'd still count as him being around.

 

[Pakl]

Gohan was stronger than his Cell Games counterpart seeing as he said he is stronger than he was 7 years ago. Him referencing M8 there makes no sense considering he was irrelevant in that film, so he'd more likely be referring to when he was the most relevant.

Except he did wether it makes sense to you or not... Movies are inconsistent about time lines like movie 6 and 5...

 

[Pakl]

I never said that. I actually said that the gap was significant, but not as big as you're making it out to be. You're assuming that because I don't have the gap as big as you do, that automatically makes the gap small.

Um, you claimed that their gap is significant because of their feats.

Good fight? He avoided a heavily suppressed kick and landed 1 off guard attack, then got stomped. Since Janemba was obviously suppressed, he doesn't have to be restriced to "SSJ3 tier".

Vegeta was able to hold himself against Janemba but still get destroyed so no argument here.

In the anime (when the Z Fighters were saying goodbye to Future Trunks), Goku patted Gohan's shoulder, and Gohan felt the sensation, even though Goku wasn't physically there.

But M10 case, Goku was fighting along side with his children by kamehameha which proves that he was there during the struggle.

That doesnt mean he was there though... Its just TOEI style to show Gokus encouragement...

Though Goku tells them that the only way they can win is use all of their power like with Cell... Goku still gave his power because he also did with Gohan vs Cell...