POWER LEVEL LIMIT FOR SAIYAN BASE ?

[Captain Cadaver]

I've seen this statement before; it doesn't change anything. If you look closely, Toriyama had these thoughts prior to when the Buu Arc story even began. Considering Majin Buu was a villain that surpassed Cell, and that Vegeta stated Goku was superior to Cell Games Gohan (who was the strongest Z fighter at the time), those thoughts do not reflect the final product. And with the amount of "no limit" statements that are sprinkled across the franchise regarding Saiyans in general, there isn't intended to be a completely definitive limit of any kind.

That, and the fact that Super is being used in the OP in attempts to validate Freeza > Base Saiyans makes this statement even more redundant when we've clearly seen in Super Goku has been able to become incomparably stronger than he was before. Also, Goku even says in the climax of the Boo Arc with confidence that he will be much, much better during his rematch with Boo (Oob), making it apparent he was far from reaching his limit.

 

[VampireWicked]

Let me be more clear some like you can understand.
I know what a debate is, I'm not here to hold an argument with you.
You wanna argue rant & rave, not my thing.
You wanna hold different points of view then by all means I'm up for it.

Regardless of how you feel or what you want, what we've been doing here is debating by the very definition of it. If that is not what you are here for, then you're free to disengage from the debate; no one is forcing you to keep arguing—you're doing that on your own accord.

Obviously I'm wasting my time if you refuse to accept a point of view different from your own.
It's not false when Base Goku never beat him.

The only way you can come to the conclusion that his statement is not false is by altering his statement in a way that suits your subjective viewpoint. The problem with that approach is that it is not realistic or sensible; it's rooted in fabrication and faulty reasoning.

Wasn't me who brought up Uub.

By Z's end, Base Goku fought on equal terms with an opponent he said could possibly beat Mr. Buu, then later commented that he is as amazing as expected.

1st page You're the last post, who are you referring to there.

Anyone with functioning eyes can see that that refers to Uub at the period of Z's end. There is no mention of Super in that quote at all. Again, I specified that you brought up Super Uub first. You can't wiggle your way out of what's plain to see.

You're using Krillin's assmuption compared to a God Of Destruction's not to mention an Angel's observation.
It's not me nick picking as it is you believing your own delusion.

This is a pretty weak angle on your part. Ok, so Beerus is a deity and is higher on the hierarchy... so what? He's not characterised as being infallible or omniscient; to assume he's right just because of his status is what's delusional. Whis didn't reinforce Beerus' observation in any way, so he has no business being mentioned here. Beerus judged Base Goku in a way that the series identifies as being undependable, so his analysis can be challenged. You're indeed nitpicking.

If I wanted to be free from criticism I wouldn't be here, it's not the criticism that bothers me.
It's the argumentative self-righteous members that gets on my nerve.

Considering you were deadset on the criticism being dropped, you clearly wanted to relieve yourself of it. What really gets on your nerves here is being faced with someone that can see through your shaky arguments and headcanon, and that doesn't require being "self-righteous". Being "argumentative" isn't necessarily a bad thing tbh. I'm not arguing with any ill-intentions or responding angrily; just defending my arguments and countering your points.

Anyway it doesn't matter I found what I was loking for, so you & whomever can interpret it however you wish.
Don't care.

I thought, “Do I really have to keep going?” Even when Cell ended, it still didn’t feel like it could end. So before the Boo story arc began, I said “Once this next thing wraps up, I want to end it no matter what.” Because I thought there was no way for any stronger guys to pop up, or for Goku to get any stronger than he already was.

Toriyama was wrapping it up so a Saiyan hit a Level Cap.
It doesn't imply Base Saiyans were weaker or even stronger than 50%-100% Frieza, but it gives Toriyama room to set that line for Base wherever he wanted to.
When he started Battle Of The Gods, DragonBall Super, it makes sense that he'd establish a Base Saiyan limit or Cap 50%-100% so they can in Super build & increase using new training methods from there.

I've seen this statement before; it doesn't change anything. If you look closely, Toriyama had these thoughts prior to when the Buu Arc story even began. Considering Majin Buu was a villain that surpassed Cell, and that Vegeta stated Goku was superior to Cell Games Gohan (who was the strongest Z fighter at the time), those thoughts do not reflect the final product. And with the amount of "no limit" statements that are sprinkled across the franchise regarding Saiyans in general, there isn't intended to be a completely definitive limit of any kind.

Yeah, that's what I'm standing for. I don't think Beerus examining Goku's body means the assessment was in regards to his appearence not matching what he saw in the crystal ball.

Ok, no problems then.

Wouldn't a statement contradicting Beerus be presented then? I know that Kaio-sama may have found rude to correct Beerus, but I don't see why Goku wouldn't speak up for his abilities to defeat Freeza even in his base state, even moreso when he seemingly wasn't understanding the threat that was besides him, with Kaio having to correct him in speaking properly.

Not necessarily, since even if there was, that wouldn't change his first impression. To put it into perspective, you may form an impression of someone you meet; your thoughts about them may change as you get to know them more, but that was still your initial impression nevertheless. Now, if you want to attribute a precise power scale to his statement, it should be considered that Goku didn't power up within base and was previously concealing himself before coming out to greet the visitors, so it's doubtful that this confirms anything concrete about Base Goku's complete power. As for Goku's lack of correction, you could argue that he just didn't care since Frieza was old news to him or that he was being simple-minded since the scene in general presented Goku as being kind of slow mentally.

Uh-huh, that's nice.