Raditz Discussion

[p123]

Special Beam Cannon ~ Enraged Gohan > Raditz (FP) > Raditz (Increased Effort) > Raditz (Initial) > Goku/Piccolo (FP) > Goku/Piccolo (Weights)

Initial Raditz was able to completely tank one of Piccolo's ki blast attacks, tail whip KO Krillen and one shot KO Goku with a knee. It's stated that Krillen, Goku and Roshi would have no chance, their only chance is Piccolo and Goku teaming up and their chances are slim and none. Their entire game plan is predicated on the thought that they think they can squeeze Raditz tail to make him weaken and then beat him.

When they get to Raditz, they both reveal they had been holding back their true power, their hope has increased just a little bit until Raditz powers up and seems to be just as superior, if not more, than he was before. Then Goku's unleashes KHH and Piccolo SBC, to which Raditz seems to finally be using his full power.

Here's a more realistic look at their power, without scouters...

Raditz 500
Raditz (Powered Up) 400
Raditz (Initial) 300
Goku/Piccolo (FP) 200
Goku/Piccolo (W/W) 150

Maybe something of this nature? What do you think?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I would place Initial Raditz at 250-270. 300 seems to much.

 

[p123]

He completely tanked Piccolo's attack without a scratch. He one shot KO'd Goku so bad, he was able to kidnap Gohan carefree and Goku was helpless to stop him. We haven't seen this kind of dominance in a long time and it only comes around once in a blue. Massive superiority that gets swept under the rug because no one pays attention to Raditz.

Could Goku have done these feats to Reecome? Goku had to use quite a bit of effort to hurt the Ginyu Force, while Raditz seems to have used zero effort. I don't know if Goku could take on a blast from Jeice in that manner.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It was Weighted Piccolo there. And he actually hit Goku on the guts, so i don't think it's a really fair comparison.

Let's say Goku on Namek still has his tail and it's weakness. Could Jeice and Burta beat him?

 

[p123]

Oh ok. You are talking about FP Goku/Piccolo. Sorry about that. You do realize that Goku/Piccolo at full power only have a little bit of a chance? 75% should give them a realistic chance, they are completely smoked by Raditz.

He hit Goku on the guts? What does that mean?

Sure, Jeice and Burter could beat Goku with a tail weakness.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The guts are a sensible part of the body. Hitting someone far weaker, with his guard down on the guts is clearly going to wreck them even if they're as strong as him.

I dunno if they could beat him. Goku was blitizing them hard as fuck, at the end of the fight he completely schooled Burta.

 

[p123]

He hit Reecome in the guts as well. The guts and the chin are the weak points, this is why you don't attack someone's arms and legs. Why are we talking about this now? Not for nothing, debating with you, I get the feeling that you are retarded. I don't really want to talk to you anymore.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

You can do whatever you want bro. I don't care.

 

[p123]

Yea. No offense, your debating style just doesn't suit me. Take care.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'm fine with that.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Special Beam Cannon ~ Enraged Gohan > Raditz (FP) > Raditz (Increased Effort) > Raditz (Initial) > Goku/Piccolo (FP) > Goku/Piccolo (Weights)

Initial Raditz was able to completely tank one of Piccolo's ki blast attacks, tail whip KO Krillin and one shot KO Goku with a knee. It's stated that Krillin, Goku and Roshi would have no chance, their only chance is Piccolo and Goku teaming up and their chances are slim and none. Their entire game plan is predicated on the thought that they think they can squeeze Raditz tail to make him weaken and then beat him.

When they get to Raditz, they both reveal they had been holding back their true power, their hope has increased just a little bit until Raditz powers up and seems to be just as superior, if not more, than he was before. Then Goku's unleashes KHH and Piccolo SBC, to which Raditz seems to finally be using his full power.

Here's a more realistic look at their power, without scouters...

Raditz 500
Raditz (Powered Up) 400
Raditz (Initial) 300
Goku/Piccolo (FP) 200
Goku/Piccolo (W/W) 150

Maybe something of this nature? What do you think?

Your gaps are off, unless you wanna go with the scouters. First of all, if you don't want to go with scouters,
there is no need to treat Weights Off boost as FP, when, at 23rd TB, it was shown that Initial Unweighted
Goku was far from his max.

Weighted Goku/Piccolo- 100
Initial Raditz- 200 (this is enough for total tanking, as we saw at 50% Freeza's blasts against SSJ Goku)
Unweighted Goku/Piccolo- 120
FP Goku/Piccolo- 150
Raditz (speed up)- 225
Raditz (max)- 300

 

[p123]

How do you explain Goku and Piccolo's shock at their initial encounter? If they had any more power, that would be the time to show it.

 

[Victorious]

I don't think Raditz knows battle power control so he's like 1,200 when he tanked weighted Piccolo's blast.

 

[p123]

Raditz may ready 1,250 on a scouter but he does not have all of his ki surfaced. He powered up during the fight.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

How do you explain Goku and Piccolo's shock at their initial encounter? If they had any more power, that would be the time to show it.

I'm pretty sure the 408/416 scouter readings were just fake and, during the fight, they used more, as Vegeta pointed at Saiyans Saga.
1.5x is too big a gap for Goku/Piccolo to believe they had a chance if they fought together. Goku stomped Jeice and Butta with 1.5x a gap.
1.33x is better. I can see two duplicates of Vegeta having a chance against Recoome.

 

[p123]

No, they weren't fake withheld. Quit making garbage up. Nothing suggests that Goku/Piccolo have any more power in them after Raditz scouter reading after removing their weights. Only the Kamehameha and Special Beam Cannon go above that threshold.

1.5x gap is probably appropriate. Their chances are slim and none and they are basing them winning the fight on a strategy that consists of weakening Raditz by grabbing his tail. Without the tail weakness, it's unlikely that they would think they had a shot.

What Goku did against Jeice/Burter seems to be on par with what Raditz did to Goku/Piccolo. Are you not comparing the fights? Raditz even states he's holding back power as well.

2 Vegeta's would have a pretty good chance against Reecome, while Goku/Piccolo have next to no chance with someone they have a game plan for.

Your debating has gotten really bad man. It's like you play devil's advocate just for the sake of it, you need to shape up or it won't be worth my time to continue with you.

 

[Victorious]

Show me Raditz powering up.

 

[p123]

Raditz powers up after Goku/Piccolo attack him right after they take the weights off. Goku and Piccolo can't believe how much more powerful Raditz has gotten. They already had slim to no chance against Initial Raditz, now they have to fight Powered Up Raditz, who is impossibly strong. What's worse, he states he is going to continue to increase his power!

 

[SSJ2]

Raditz even states the fact that he'd be "powering up", it's just not in the sense that it is for someone who can control their battle power.

Chapter: 199 (DBZ 5), P14.1-5
Raditz: “But it’s just a matter of time before you die…I’ll be slowly making my attacks stronger.”
Piccolo: “To think that our levels would be so different…!
Raditz: “The other two Saiyan survivors besides me…Have battle powers higher than mine.”

 

[Victorious]

Making your attacks stronger doesn't really mean powering up IMO. I'd have to see it.