Raditz Discussion

[Castiel]

Trunks getting one shotted is the biggest hint here: 18 does not say she's powering up at all.


Vegeta's also much much more stubborn, so that's probably why he kept hanging on more tnah anyone elsd did

 

[p123]

18's dramatic shift in attitude could indeed mean a change in power. She went from using no effort, to taking the shit deathly seriously.

Either way, Vegeta > Trunks by a larger gap then we assumed imo.

 

[ahill1]

They could have moved with #16's pod me thinks. Either that, or they protected it with their own bodies, dunno. How are their clothes? #18's clothes were at least jagged up after Vegeta's blast.

As for #18 defending herself from Trunks' sword with a single arm ever so nonchalantly... well, I think that's kind of a combination from both. Vegeta is noticeably above Trunks and #18 was putting up more effort upon seeing Trunks butted in. Piccolo seemed to imply #18's stamina was the main factor involved there that would lead Vegeta to his downfall, which to me implies that #18 (vs Vegeta) was around Vegeta's powers, something that seems iffy considering statements dished out after the fight. There's also Trunks apparently only noticing present #18 was stronger than her future self upon fightng her, whereas beforehand, when she was fighting Vegeta, he was only impressed by Vegeta's ability to fight on par with her, which to me implies present #18 was still holding back to a similar level of that of the future androids, and then decided to use her full power upon seeing Trunks was about to attack her, or something close to that.

Present #18 >> Present #18 (still holding back) ~ Vegeta SSJ ~ Future #18

I know that #18 stated she wouldn't hold back anymore, but if there're later implications implying she did, then I'd rather go that route. Similarly, Roshi in the 22nd Budokai stated he'd be now serious against Tenshinhan, yet according to this latter Roshi still didn't give his all... so there's still ground for a character stating they'd be serious and yet be holding back somehow, much like Goku in his fight against Kuririn in the same Budokai.

 

[p123]

Yep, good analysis. And Vegeta's comment about Cell wouldn't have been made about 18 imo. Cell's ki > 18's ability vs Vegeta.

He kept changing the story, that's why we have weird stuff with 19/20 and 18 powers imo.

18 not being able to take on Vegeta/Trunks/Piccolo should still be real though. It's a doozy to make all of this shit work.

 

[ahill1]

Well, #17 saw how Vegeta surpassed the data he had for him, so might be expecting everyone there to be way stronger than initially predicted. Notice that #17 states "#18 'might' not be able to handle them all", with the 'might' possibly indicating such unsureness regarding everyone's standing... something like "I don't know where everyone stands in terms of power right now, so it might not be worth the risk having everyone fight her".

 

[p123]

He's impressed with Vegeta too.

I think the introduction of Cell changes things a bit too. I don't think Cell was created yet in this area. So the complexion of powers might change.

Same goes for Piccolo vs Gero first fight. I don't think Piccolo was really all that stupendously strong there. He might have adjusted Piccolo's power on the fly later. That's why a lot of the power chains are clunky. It shows him changing his mind...

I don't think it's implied that Vegeta can even fight Cell as good as he did 18. I think 18 was holding back a good deal.

 

[ahill1]

Something interesting is that #18 still tanks Vegeta's punch and blast when they were seemingly fighting on par, but that can still be explained:

#18 there, in all likelihood, couldn't power up in the traditional way, that is, by flashing her aura like the other Z fighters, so the "holding back" we apply for #18 should be much more of an effort thing, hence her durability appearing to be kind off synch with her displayed fighting ability, as in, her durability would still reflect her true power if all she has been holding back was her effort.

 

[p123]

When Vegeta is fighting decently with her, she states he's a nothing. It's such a weird fight. Interesting theory...

Trunks breaking the sword on her arm is a crazy feat. I don't even know how to get into that. That's more than a 1.5x gap.

 

[ahill1]

Open a thread here and in neoseeker about #18 vs Vegeta. I am sure there're some guys there who defend them being pretty close together.

 

[p123]

They can't possibly be. They are fighting almost evenly and 18 mocks his power. It's clear she isn't going all out.

 

[ahill1]

Create it then. You will see.

 

[p123]

You do it, it's your idea.

 

[ahill1]

But you are the one who must do it. Your the King!

 

[p123]

I am the King, hence why I am delegating to you, my squire. Haha. I'm doing a million things right now! Trying to put this next video together while debating all of this shit is crazy. But I rather try to get it right then fuck it up and have to redo everything. I want to put some numbers I'll be comfortable with living with.

I'm glad though, my opinions have evolved on the 22nd Budokai so far.

 

[ahill1]

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2286408-mah-gaps/2.htm

I told you there're ppl there who think Vegeta and #18 are rivals.