Raditz Discussion

[Evil Vegeta]

 

[p123]

Counter...

19:51 Goku- Maybe now we can have ourselves a little bit better of a fight.

 

[p123]

What is everyone scared to touch this topic?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

What is everyone scared to touch this topic?

What else am i supposed to do, honey? Shove my wisedom into your head by force?

 

[p123]

What's your wisdom? Show your numbers. Include all three of Raditz's powers.

 

[Victorious]

Raditz is boring.

 

[p123]

Raditz isn't boring. It's essentially unexplored territory. It's the saga that has the most scouter numbers so people think it's all figured it out. Spoiler Alert, it's not. Don't be a wuss, come and get your ass whooped on this topic Vic!

This might be the only time in the history of the series where Goku gets one shotted.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

What's your wisdom? Show your numbers. Include all three of Raditz's powers.

-Initial Raditz is 1.33x FP Goku/Piccolo, because Piccolo didn't seem to count on tail grabbing when
he said they might have a chance, and i don't think he was counting on SPC either (which AT pulled
out of his ass the moment he was writing the dialogue where Piccolo says he has that technique).
-Speed Up Raditz is 1.5x FP Goku/Piccolo, because the fight looked like what 60k Goku could do to
Jeice/Butta.
-FP Raditz is 2x FP Goku/Piccolo.

Long ago, to make room for a reasonable scouter list, i theorized that Unweighted Goku/Piccolo were
not at their max powers and only went FP when they started fighting. I don't think that's unreasonable
at all. There is plenty of evidence...
-23rd TB Unweighted Goku is not at full power from the start.
-Vegeta stated that the scouter numbers are fake and become greater in battle. You can argue he was
referring to blasts only, but, in that case, that means the 981,1083, 1220 numbers were their true
maxes. Then, how did they overpower Saibaimen in hand to hand combat?
-Suppressing power levels was a technique taught to humans by Kami. BOZ Goku had already received
Kami's training and Piccolo had Kami's knowledge, so i don't see why they couldn't suppress their PLs.

 

[p123]

1) 1.33x is far too small. Raditz tanks Piccolo's ki blast and one shots Goku. 2x is more appropriate.
2) Piccolo heard the whole tail grabbing scheme. He was there and heard the whole conversation.
3) Speed up Raditz being 1.5x is appropriate.
4) FP is hard to determine, that's based off of the amplifications more than anything. But I think I have it around that as well.

Your theory is proven false. I have used the theory as well, but it's full of holes and is not backed by the manga.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1) 1.33x is far too small. Raditz tanks Piccolo's ki blast and one shots Goku. 2x is more appropriate.
2) Piccolo heard the whole tail grabbing scheme. He was there and heard the whole conversation.
3)Your theory is proven false. I have used the theory as well, but it's full of holes and is not backed by the manga.

1. Those feats were against Weighted Goku/Piccolo. I'm talking about the gap over FP Goku/Piccolo.
2. I know he was there and heard, but, to me, it didn't seem he cared about that plan.
3. It is a good theory for a reasonable scouter list. You don't have to use it if you go with non scouter
logic, even though i think it can even fit really well with a non scouter list.

 

[p123]

Oh ok.

Well it's hugely important to discuss what was actually shown, before getting into hypotheticals...

1) Do you agree, Initial Raditz over Weighted Goku/Piccolo is at least a 2x gap?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Do you agree, Initial Raditz over Weighted Goku/Piccolo is at least a 2x gap?

Yes.

 

[Castiel]

Initial Raditz vs Piccolo is comparable (although smaller) than Second Form Freeza/Vegeta considering both of them have the feat of tanking a blast without even getting scratched. Only difference is that Freeza had his back turned while Raditz was ready to tank the attack. I have Freeza being around 2.75x times stronger than Vegeta, so Raditz being could be 2.2/2.5x times stronger than Piccolo I guess.


How do you all think the Androids tanking Trunks' blast stacks up to these two gaps?

 

[p123]

I think you are forgetting up factor in ki amplification in your numbers.

Raditz and Freeza tanked Piccolo and Vegeta's blasts, not them. So it's even a bigger deal. Your numbers are fine, just want to clarify.

I have Piccolos blast somewhere around 50% of Raditz. I think that is fine.

 

[Castiel]

Yeah, considering they were both unnamed generic attacks I did not take in consideration the fact that they might have a different multiplier so I didn't mention it.

What about the droids?

 

[p123]

Hmm. Trunks does try blast them all away right? And it does absolutely nothing, right?

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, considering they were both unnamed generic attacks I did not take in consideration the fact that they might have a different multiplier so I didn't mention it.

What about the droids?

What if the droids dodged that? #16's pod was intact after all. Only if they made a shield of themselves to protect #16.

 

[p123]

What makes you think they dodged it?

 

[Castiel]

they could have avoided it but i feel like the manga made us see that they took the blast but were unscathed. they coulda moved but 16's pod was not able to dodge the move.

 

[p123]

So how the hell is Vegeta anywhere close to 18 if Trunks is relevant to Vegeta?

1) Trunks's sword gets fucking tanked and chipped.
2) Trunks's Full Power Blast gets tanked.
3) Trunks's gets one shotted.

Trunks is either much weaker than Vegeta or 18 was holding back against Vegeta.