Recent Chapter Discussion

[Let's Go Fearless!]

WTF are you talking about? Goku not using the buff SSJ form Trunks used in the Cell Saga? Cell himself acknowledged Vegeta probably knew of it but didn't use it because he could see the drawbacks it had that Trunks could not.

I'm talking about Ascended Super Saiyan, Goku knew that form before the Android arc but he didn't train with it because there was no need for him to learn it since he thought SSjin is enough. Then after Vegeta got his ass kicked, suddenly the Ascended Super Saiyan came out of nowhere that there is such a thing that is beyond than a Super Saiyan which is came OUT OF NOWHERE itself! That's asspull right there pal.

I'll give you another one, Goku told Gohan that if he gets mad and unleashed the power he used against Cell then there's none that can beat him but turn out Goku has a SSjin3 form and is multi-fold stronger than Gohan's power. Why is that?

Goku told Trunks that he doens't have a chance against Fat Buu but turns out he can but he didn't want too since it's not his job to protect the Earth anymore, simple!

Goku had NO opportunity to train to learn how to do FPSSB during the Future Trunks arc. Vegeta had every opportunity with how he actually stayed in the time chamber for a while. There was no foreshadowing to Goku learning how to do FPSSB. It is an asspull.

Doens't matter, Goku doesn't even know about Super Saiyan form but he managed to transform into a Super Saiyan ''because of rage'', that's an asspull power up itself. Did you even watch DBZ?

As for Vegeta not learning the FPSSjinB, it's because he has other plans duh. He planned to learn SSjinG so he can switched it with SSjinB on every secs. By your logic, Vegeta should have learned SSjin2 during his first trip to the ROSAT but he didn't since his goal is to learn the ASSjin form and not SSjin2. Come on now.

 

[xenos5]

I'm talking about Ascended Super Saiyan, Goku knew that form before the Android arc but he didn't train with it because there was no need for him to learn it since he thought SSjin is enough. Then after Vegeta got his ass kicked, suddenly the Ascended Super Saiyan came out of nowhere that there is such a thing that is beyond than a Super Saiyan which is came OUT OF NOWHERE itself! That's asspull right there pal.

So you're talking about the form Vegeta went into when he fought Semi Perfect Cell? Goku didn't know about it before the android arc. You have no proof of this.

It's not an asspull for Vegeta to come up with the idea that "if SSJ isn't strong enough maybe there's something beyond SSJ!" . He didn't actually know it was just him hypothesizing. He wanted to believe there was a way to get stronger and the method he come up with is reaching a stronger form.

I'll give you another one, Goku told Gohan that if he gets mad and unleashed the power he used against Cell then there's none that can beat him but turn out Goku has a SSjin3 form and is multi-fold stronger than Gohan's power. Why is that?

When did this statement you're talking about occur? Goku was only able to achieve the SSJ3 form due to his training in the other world. Vegeta never had the opportunity to train in other world.

Goku told Trunks that he doens't have a chance against Fat Buu but turns out he can but he didn't want too since it's not his job to protect the Earth anymore, simple!

This has nothing to do with Goku becoming FPSSB more recently. Goku was directly involved here and wasn't just passing shit off to the next generation anymore. Even though there was no foreshadowing for SSJ3, Goku had plenty of time to train to reach it in an environment no one else could train in at that time. FPSSB had no foreshadowing and there was no timeframe for him to train for it. For Goku to just be able to use it with no training is complete nonsense. And it's even more of an asspull for it to be Fusion God Tier power-wise.

Doens't matter, Goku doesn't even know about Super Saiyan form but he managed to transform into a Super Saiyan ''because of rage'', that's an asspull power up itself. Did you even watch DBZ?

SSJ received PLENTY of foreshadowing. In the manga it was mentioned as far back as the saiyan saga when Vegeta and Nappa were in their pods on the way to Earth. And it was brought up again many times by Vegeta during the namek saga. Rage is just the method that usually allows a Saiyan to become a SSJ. There's nothing asspull-ish about that. It's just Goku using the common method.

As for Vegeta not learning the FPSSjinB, it's because he has other plans duh. He planned to learn SSjinG so he can switched it with SSjinB on every secs. By your logic, Vegeta should have learned SSjin2 during his first trip to the ROSAT but he didn't since his goal is to learn the ASSjin form and not SSjin2. Come on now.

Neither Goku nor Vegeta could've possibly learned SSJ2 while training in the time chamber. It took them many years to achieve it in a way differently than how Gohan unlocked it through rage. Vegeta should've been far more experienced with the SSB form having trained with it so long in the time chamber. It makes far more sense for him to come up with the idea and to be able to pull it off. With no other evidence we can only assume Goku using FPSSB against Merged Zamasu was his first time using it and he had not trained as long as Vegeta did with the SSB form so for him to be able to maintain that form for more than a second instead of his body failing him and it just not working is nonsense.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

So you're talking about the form Vegeta went into when he fought Semi Perfect Cell? Goku didn't know about it before the android arc. You have no proof of this.

It's not an asspull for Vegeta to come up with the idea that "if SSJ isn't strong enough maybe there's something beyond SSJ!" . He didn't actually know it was just him hypothesizing. He wanted to believe there was a way to get stronger and the method he come up with is reaching a stronger form.

He wasn't hypothesizing the form, both he and Goku knew of its existence and the question is when did they know that and why didn't they learn it? Is it because there wasn't need too? If it does then there wasn't need for Goku to learn the FPSSjinB as well since they already have a planned against Zamasus, Vegeta will train in ROSAT and Goku will learn how to seal Future Zamasu, simple as that.

What I'm proving to you is that "asspull power ups" isn't suprising in DBZ, damn!

When did this statement you're talking about occur? Goku was only able to achieve the SSJ3 form due to his training in the other world. Vegeta never had the opportunity to train in other world.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…
Is this true? Since Goku has SSjin3 all along therefore this is false.

Goku has SSJin3 form but he didn't use against Majin Vegeta, why was it again?

This has nothing to do with Goku becoming FPSSB more recently. Goku was directly involved here and wasn't just passing shit off to the next generation anymore. Even though there was no foreshadowing for SSJ3, Goku had plenty of time to train to reach it in an environment no one else could train in at that time. FPSSB had no foreshadowing and there was no timeframe for him to train for it. For Goku to just be able to use it with no training is complete nonsense. And it's even more of an asspull for it to be Fusion God Tier power-wise.

SSjin3 came out of nowhere too without any built up and you're just gonna ignore that? Don't!

Goku himself tells Zamasu why didn't bother to use that form, it's because it has its weakness and he can't master it yet hence he didn't tell to anyone [Perhaps Whis and Beerus know about it]. If anyone who knows at discovering a weakness, it's Goku. The same reason why he didn't use it against Majin Vegeta since SSjin3 is unsustainable and will cost his life of 24 hrs on Earth.

SSJ received PLENTY of foreshadowing. In the manga it was mentioned as far back as the saiyan saga when Vegeta and Nappa were in their pods on the way to Earth. And it was brought up again many times by Vegeta during the namek saga. Rage is just the method that usually allows a Saiyan to become a SSJ. There's nothing asspull-ish about that. It's just Goku using the common method.

Yes it was foreshadowed but Goku doesn't have any knowledge about it and suddenly he managed to pull it off out of his ass because of his anger lol.

Neither Goku nor Vegeta could've possibly learned SSJ2 while training in the time chamber. It took them many years to achieve it in a way differently than how Gohan unlocked it through rage. Vegeta should've been far more experienced with the SSB form having trained with it so long in the time chamber. It makes far more sense for him to come up with the idea and to be able to pull it off. With no other evidence we can only assume Goku using FPSSB against Merged Zamasu was his first time using it and he had not trained as long as Vegeta did with the SSB form so for him to be able to maintain that form for more than a second instead of his body failing him and it just not working is nonsense.

Vegeta not learning it isn't that a problem, he has a different goal hence that's the reason why he didn't learn about FPSSjinB. Come on now, Vegeta went in te ROSAT to train ASSjin but why didn't he learn about SSjin2 instead? See, I can ask the same thing and we'll end up nowhere.

 

[xenos5]

So you're talking about the form Vegeta went into when he fought Semi Perfect Cell? Goku didn't know about it before the android arc. You have no proof of this.

It's not an asspull for Vegeta to come up with the idea that "if SSJ isn't strong enough maybe there's something beyond SSJ!" . He didn't actually know it was just him hypothesizing. He wanted to believe there was a way to get stronger and the method he come up with is reaching a stronger form.

He wasn't hypothesizing the form, both he and Goku knew of its existence and the question is when did they know that and why didn't they learn it? Is it because there wasn't need too? If it does then there wasn't need for Goku to learn the FPSSjinB as well since they already have a planned against Zamasus, Vegeta will train in ROSAT and Goku will learn how to seal Future Zamasu, simple as that.

What I'm proving to you is that "asspull power ups" isn't suprising in DBZ, damn!

When did this statement you're talking about occur? Goku was only able to achieve the SSJ3 form due to his training in the other world. Vegeta never had the opportunity to train in other world.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…
Is this true? Since Goku has SSjin3 all along therefore this is false.

Goku has SSJin3 form but he didn't use against Majin Vegeta, why was it again?

This has nothing to do with Goku becoming FPSSB more recently. Goku was directly involved here and wasn't just passing shit off to the next generation anymore. Even though there was no foreshadowing for SSJ3, Goku had plenty of time to train to reach it in an environment no one else could train in at that time. FPSSB had no foreshadowing and there was no timeframe for him to train for it. For Goku to just be able to use it with no training is complete nonsense. And it's even more of an asspull for it to be Fusion God Tier power-wise.

SSjin3 came out of nowhere too without any built up and you're just gonna ignore that? Don't!

Goku himself tells Zamasu why didn't bother to use that form, it's because it has its weakness and he can't master it yet hence he didn't tell to anyone [Perhaps Whis and Beerus know about it]. If anyone who knows at discovering a weakness, it's Goku. The same reason why he didn't use it against Majin Vegeta since SSjin3 is unsustainable and will cost his life of 24 hrs on Earth.

SSJ received PLENTY of foreshadowing. In the manga it was mentioned as far back as the saiyan saga when Vegeta and Nappa were in their pods on the way to Earth. And it was brought up again many times by Vegeta during the namek saga. Rage is just the method that usually allows a Saiyan to become a SSJ. There's nothing asspull-ish about that. It's just Goku using the common method.

Yes it was foreshadowed but Goku doesn't have any knowledge about it and suddenly he managed to pull it off out of his ass because of his anger lol.

Neither Goku nor Vegeta could've possibly learned SSJ2 while training in the time chamber. It took them many years to achieve it in a way differently than how Gohan unlocked it through rage. Vegeta should've been far more experienced with the SSB form having trained with it so long in the time chamber. It makes far more sense for him to come up with the idea and to be able to pull it off. With no other evidence we can only assume Goku using FPSSB against Merged Zamasu was his first time using it and he had not trained as long as Vegeta did with the SSB form so for him to be able to maintain that form for more than a second instead of his body failing him and it just not working is nonsense.

Vegeta not learning it isn't that a problem, he has a different goal hence that's the reason why he didn't learn about FPSSjinB. Come on now, Vegeta went in te ROSAT to train ASSjin but why didn't he learn about SSjin2 instead? See, I can ask the same thing and we'll end up nowhere.

This is getting tiresome. You keep on sidestepping my main point. Goku never had any opportunity to train to reach FPSSB. When he came back from fighting Black he immediately got to training with the mafuba. And if it was this ultra risky form Goku shouldn't have been able to properly use it on the first attempt. He should've gone out of it. It is an asspull plain and simple. There is no way Toyble planned this ahead of time.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

We don't know if Goku tried to train it or not, he probably trained it earlier but still couldn't master the form for all we know.

Spoiler

If Goku was able to achieve the ASSjin in his first attempt then I don't see any reason why he couldn't do it with FPSSjinB

 

[xenos5]

We don't know if Goku tried to train it or not, he probably trained it earlier but still couldn't master the form for all we know.

Spoiler

If Goku was able to achieve the ASSjin in his first attempt then I don't see any reason why he couldn't do it with FPSSjinB

You're making assumptions to cover Toyble's ass. You don't have any proof he trained to use it.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

We'll just see. Maybe Goku will explain his side story.

 

[SSJ2]

Fearless Excuses

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Not really, I bet if Toriyama releases a chapter about Goku turning into SSjin, everyone will complain on why Vegeta should have been the one reached it and not Goku. That goes how retard fans these days.

 

[Papasmurf]

Basically what happens is Goku yet again asspulls a technique he actually knew all along (learned Hakai when Beerus showed him the attack off-screen), and when Zamasu's fusion starts to split because it'd been an hour, his two halves both being zamasu's caused him to fuse at a celluar level, so Trunks cutting him in half just made both halves regenerate into fully powered MZ's. The army of Zamasu's appear for the same reason, when Vegeta pulls off some childishly named Final Flash variant and blows both of him to bits so they regenerate again into hundreds of themselves.

If I haven't said it before, I'll say it now: This manga has a shit amount of payoff for its monthly wait and needs to conclude this shit arc really fucking badly.

 

[Papasmurf]

Also, something else that doesn't make any god damned sense: When Zamasu exploded and tried to wipe out the cosmos along with Goku early on in the chapter he was apparently so mad his aura was leaking out (like Galu's when MSSJB became too much to handle). Soo... apparently merged zamasu with his aura kept in himself ~ Goku with his aura contained, but SSJB Galu w/ aura << Rose Black

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

It seems the anime executed it better IMO.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Dragon-Ball-Chou/025---Goku---Or-Zamasu--?id=371008

I'm still gonna wait for Viz to translate this chapter, I still can't understand why Merged Zamasu still exist though.

 

[Papasmurf]

They ended up fusing at a cellular level due to both being Zamasu's, so when Trunks tried to separate them they just multiplied instead of defusing

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Sounds fair since none withnessed a fusion between a same persons. I hope the next chapter will be the last of this arc, please.

 

[Jeff Styles]

I bet this is the same translator who made Vegeta says motherfucker in the BoG Arc lol.

Spoiler

 

[Jiren the Gray]

It Make sense why trunks sliced mz in the manga than in the anime, because the Manga, merged zamasu was corrupting,his fusion was unstable due of his inmortality,so trunks sliced both of them causing the duplication

Are you kidding me?

Merged Zamasu was also unstable in the anime. So you are basically just excusing what happened in the manga even though it's worse than the anime (because Trunks got no powerups to do it in the manga. He was JUST SSJ2, whereas in the anime he was SSJ Ikari/rage and used a spirit bomb infused sword to do it) for something that also applies to the anime?

GTFO of here with these double standards. You are reaching to the moon here, manga apologist.

You dummy,you didn't even the read the post,his fusion was breaking because he reached his time limit,he was unfusing but his body refused to and trunk just cut them in half but it didn't kill them and I don't think goo zamasu was unfusing,he was like that because he was half inmortal and half mortal and I'm not a Manga apologists since I hate Black and MZ in the Manga

 

[Jiren the Gray]

This chapter suprisingly had amazing art,is a shame it didn't made that much sense

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Well Merged Zamasu appeared on 23rd chapter so ending his time in 25th seems like a stupid decision IMO. Maybe it'll end on the next two chapters with future Zeno erasing FU7 IMO.

 

[xenos5]

You dummy,you didn't even the read the post,his fusion was breaking because he reached his time limit,he was unfusing but his body refused to and trunk just cut them in half but it didn't kill them and I don't think goo zamasu was unfusing,he was like that because he was half inmortal and half mortal and I'm not a Manga apologists since I hate Black and MZ in the Manga

SSJ2 Trunks is still nowhere near Black or Zamasu. And Black and Zamasu had already bonded at a cellular level at that point so they should've been just as durable as when they were stable Merged Zamasu.

It's both Merged Zamasu has way too shitty of durability for a fusion god tier (all the way back to Base Vegito blowing his side off and regular SSB putting a hole in him) and SSJ2 Trunks is way too powerful with no explanation. If they were going to have Trunks do this shit they may as well have given him the new form he got in the anime. It'd make more sense than him being able to do this shit as a SSJ2.