Since the bandwagon for this has appeared...

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Thoughts on Avengers Endgame?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It's a movie I like, but would say it's average at best if looking at it objectively. Tony, Clint and (surprisingly) Nebula have good character arcs within it and the emotional payoffs are great, but the time travel has some very questionable elements to it to the point of creating several plot holes (if it can bring someone to a younger age, why not use it to have Thor get back in his Infinity War shape?) and what they did to Thor and Hulk's character arcs were terrible. I'd still say that I'd take it as the conclusion to the Infinity Saga rather than gambling on an alternative conclusion, especially after a certain other film of last year showed how much more flawed a conclusion to a giant of cinematic series can be.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

especially after a certain other film of last year showed how much more flawed a conclusion to a giant of cinematic series can be.

5 years from now:

Spoiler

The dead speak! Somehow, Thanos has returned...

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I mean, the "I am all the Sith!/And I am all the Jedi!" cringe was as big of ripoff to "I am inevitable/And I am Iron Man" as you can get

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Not to mention the whole "fight" being a huge Gohan vs Cell rip off... Except Rey couldn't lose her arm so she had to use ligthsabers instead

 

[Captain Cadaver]

When you realise both TLJ Luke and Cell Arc Galu sacrificed themselves pinning hopes on the next generation only for their successor to mess things up. dawg

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

When you realize Ben Swolo was trying to replicate Roshi's manly GAINZ

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Also when you realize both Kylo Ren and Adjudant Black killed their masters before we got any lore or backstory on them dawg

 

[Captain Cadaver]

We learnt that Red used to be picked on by kids and rejected by girls for his height when he was younger that fuelled his motivation, which is still tenfold more than we got on Supreme Jobber Snork

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Well we also learned that he used to get picked up by Vader and thrown into a endless shaft back when he was the Senate. And thanks to anime dub we also learn Red was just a facade and Gero was the true leader of the RRA 2

But wait, does that mean First Order is basically a copy of the Cell saga? dawg

 

[Captain Cadaver]

- Phasma is as much of a jobber as #19.
- Hux is as ineffectual a leader as #20.
- Cell goes into Kylo Ren-esque tantrums when he doesn't get his way.
- Ben Swolo = Power Weighted form

It's an older comparison, but it checks out.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But hey, this whole conversation reminds me of how similar DBZ and Star Wars can be. Toriyama is a huge Star Wars fan, after all. Goku helping Gohan reminds me a lot of Obi-Wan helping Luke on the Death Star run, for example.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

The Freeza Arc certainly held some Star Wars influence (healing chambers = bacta tanks, the one artwork piece of Bulma, Kuririn and Gohan where Gohan has a lightsaber, etc.) and the arc's plot is pretty similar to the structure of some Flash Gordon serials that served as an inspiration for Star Wars.

Toriyama's approach to integrating elements of other works into his own whilst putting an original spin on them is also quite similar to what Lucas did with the Star Wars films (in particular, the GOAT prequels) in how they draw from multiple stories, myths, real world events and cinema techniques going back to the early days of cinema to make something unique.

Speaking of which, you may be interested in this YouTube documentary on many aspects of the prequels that go completely underrated. It also adds a potential explanation to the flaw I perceived of Chewbacca's cameo actually serving an important purpose in ANH.

[youtube]vqnjzVX8EKA[/youtube]

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

Akira Toriyama is basically the japanese George Lucas. They even keep forgetting important stuff and ended up giving the franchise to money thirsty companies. At least Shueisha and Toei aren't as greedy as Disney...

 

[Captain Cadaver]

They even keep forgetting important stuff

Toriyama maybe, but Lucas honestly didn't forget much beyond some pieces of terminology. If anything, his attention to detail and drawing from past events was pretty incredible when looking at some parts of the prequels and how they tie into the OT, particularly some of the scene compositions and dialogue choices.

and ended up giving the franchise to money thirsty companies. At least Shueisha and Toei aren't as greedy as Disney...

Difference is, Toriyama wasn't begrudgingly forced into doing so by a vocal minority of the fanbase or had his ideas ostracised by the new "creative" team.

 

[Ultimate Cell]

George shouldn't had listen to a vocal minority in the 1st place. He needed bigger balls.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I think him listening to the minority is understandable when considering their actions lead to Jake Lloyd's mental breakdown and Ahmed Best contemplating suicide. Combine that with Disney having enough influence in other companies and businesses to essentially force Lucas into the deal and his hands were pretty tied.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I wouldn't call them a minority. Hardly anybody liked these movies when they came out, with the hate only dying because of the Sequels.

Anyway Captain Cadaver, the time has come.

Spoiler

List good things about the Sequel Trilogy. Specially TLJ since TFA is okay and TROS is just a fan film

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I wouldn't call them a minority. Hardly anybody liked these movies when they came out, with the hate only dying because of the Sequels.

There was plenty of positive reception for the films at the time, particularly Revenge of Sith. It was only really after the Plinkett reviews that sheeple started to hate them, with the only negative press it got being from some critics (and we all know how much the "critics" words are worth now). As someone who grew up during the prequel era, I never heard anything but praise for the films until long after their conclusion aside from some jabs on The Simpsons. There was some negative interviews from fans, but it was far from a majority like with the sequels as there's just as many interviews of people praising TPM on its opening week.

List good things about the Sequel Trilogy.

TFA:
- Rey's introduction is a very good case of visual storytelling that portrays how she lives her life and an insight into her goals. Too bad that's about as much characterisation as she'll get in this trilogy
- The scene where Rey and Finn run from the TIE fighter does a good job at telling us a lot visually in a short time and one of the few moments where Daisy Ridley's acting can be praised. We see an understandable frustration of Rey not wanting to be led by Finn when she knows the area better and a surprise that his first thought after getting up his her safety rather than his, establishing the trope of instant comradery in a believable way.

TLJ:
- Mark Hamill's acting was good, despite how much the script ruining his character.
- The Bad Lip Syncing song "My Stick" that uses the Yoda scene from the film is hilarious.
- ...Oh, you expected me to legitimately say there's anything else in this film that works?
- If including good premises with shit executions, then this film has quite a few that could make it work with adjustments. Luke's arc could've worked if showing his journey into becoming such a broken man better in a way that didn't ruin his character, Force Ghosts interacting with the mortal plane could've been excused if it was explained it could only be done on Acht-Too due to it being a Force Nexus and Rose could've been decent as a tech savvy girl if not for...basically everything about how she was handled.

TROS:
- The acting of Boyega and Isaac is better than the previous films.
- Babu Frick's got a funny enough name.
- ...Honestly, there's nothing else. Every single scene and idea about this film is so fundamentally flawed it can make any poorly written fan-fiction look good by comparison. The worst of Super is still 10/10 material compared to this.

since TFA is okay

Only if you ignore huge plot conveniences being the only reason anything is able to happen, poorly written characters, Rey being a Mary Sue, terrible world building and...practically everything other than the pretty visuals

 

[ahill1]

What do you think about this scene in the 1999 anime? It's 12 minutes long but worth it.

[youtube]udR6RdFpSVk[/youtube]