SSG3 Trunks vs. 50% FPSS Goku

[SSJ2]

He had an aura as he was powering up, I don't think he needs to maintain it at 50%. He had the aura as soon as he began his power up too.

So this strongly imply that Goku [50%] is not Goku [Warm up], right ?

No, I'm saying it doesn't help your case. For example, let's say initial Goku was 30%. He had no aura. At 30% as he began to power up, he had an aura. So you don't necessarily need to have one below 100%. The aura simply signified that he was powering up.

 

[ahill1]

He had an aura as he was powering up, I don't think he needs to maintain it at 50%. He had the aura as soon as he began his power up too.

So this strongly imply that Goku [50%] is not Goku [Warm up], right ?

No, I'm saying it doesn't help your case. For example, let's say initial Goku was 30%. He had no aura. At 30% as he began to power up, he had an aura. So you don't necessarily need to have one below 100%. The aura simply signified that he was powering up.

You have Goku [50%] >> Goku [Warm up], right ?

 

[SSJ2]

So this strongly imply that Goku [50%] is not Goku [Warm up], right ?

No, I'm saying it doesn't help your case. For example, let's say initial Goku was 30%. He had no aura. At 30% as he began to power up, he had an aura. So you don't necessarily need to have one below 100%. The aura simply signified that he was powering up.

You have Goku [50%] >> Goku [Warm up], right ?

Yeah, I just think arguments can be made for the other side.

 

[Six Trails]

Not sure if already mentioned, but Vegeta seemed to know warm-up Goku wasn't going all out, but at the same time thought 50% Goku was Goku's max.

 

[ahill1]

Not sure if already mentioned, but Vegeta seemed to know warm-up Goku wasn't going all out, but at the same time thought 50% Goku was Goku's max.

Nope, Vegeta knew ( or at least suspected ) that Goku [50%] was not his full power.

Vegeta - Show me what you can do... Kakarrot.

 

[Six Trails]

And what does the original say? That's Viz. And if the original is the same, then warm-up Goku = 50% Goku can actually be argued.

 

[ahill1]

No, I'm saying it doesn't help your case. For example, let's say initial Goku was 30%. He had no aura. At 30% as he began to power up, he had an aura. So you don't necessarily need to have one below 100%. The aura simply signified that he was powering up.

You have Goku [50%] >> Goku [Warm up], right ?

Yeah, I just think arguments can be made for the other side.

I don't get your point. You said that Vegeta considering Goku [50%] being one step ahead of him implies that the difference is not that great, and yet have Perfect Cell [Warm up] being way weaker than Goku FPSSJ [50%]. By this logic, FPSSJ Goku [50%] should be way, way, way, way stronger than Vegeta.

Goku in his warm up against Cell did not had an aura, so by your logic, he did not power up. So FPSSJ Goku [Warm up] = FPSSJ Goku [normal state] ?

 

[SSJ2]

Your logic only applies if you think Goku powered down after powering up for Karin.

I agree with you, I'm just saying that it is not absolute.

 

[ahill1]

Your logic only applies if you think Goku powered down after powering up for Karin.

I agree with you, I'm just saying that it is not absolute.

Goku had an aura against Yakon and yet he was not at full power.

Goten and Trunks had an aura at Kami's palace and yet they were not at full power.

There are examples where the character keep the aura and yet is not at Full Power.

And don't you think the gap between Vegeta and Goku SSJ [50%] should be big ?

 

[SSJ2]

In all of those instances, we have no reason to believe that they were far away from full power. Being 50% is a lot different than being 80-95% for example.

Should it be big? Yeah, but not like what some have. A sample 50% = Warm up list.

SSJ G2 Vegeta: 100
Warm Up Cell: 180
SSJ G3 Trunks: 250
50% Goku: 180
100% Goku: 360
Cell @ Goku: 406
SSJ Gohan: 504

I don't really see a contradiction there... Cell is at a level where he can tank Vegeta's kick, and Trunks is still at a level where he can demolish Cell.

 

[ahill1]

In all of those instances, we have no reason to believe that they were far away from full power. Being 50% is a lot different than being 80-95% for example.

Should it be big? Yeah, but not like what some have. A sample 50% = Warm up list.

SSJ G2 Vegeta: 100
Warm Up Cell: 180
SSJ G3 Trunks: 250
50% Goku: 180
100% Goku: 360
Cell @ Goku: 406
SSJ Gohan: 504

I don't really see a contradiction there... Cell is at a level where he can tank Vegeta's kick, and Trunks is still at a level where he can demolish Cell.

Goku SSJ [vs Yakon] was far away from his full power... Dabra [after he saw Goku's SSJ power] was still confident that he could take out the 3 saiyans at once, and yet Goku FPSSJ should be way stronger than Dabra. So : FPSSJ Goku [100%] >>> FPSSJ Gohan >= Dabra >>> FPSSJ Goku [suppressed]. And yet Goku had keep an aura.

 

[SSJ2]

Dabra also thought that Pocus would beat the Saiyans. His words are worth jack shit.

 

[ahill1]

Dabra also thought that Pocus would beat the Saiyans. His words are worth jack shit.

But Dabra knew precisely Goku's kiri [3,000]... Dabra at least is smart enough to figure out his kiri is well above Goku's.

 

[Kyo]

Vegeta thought that Goku [normal state] is weaker than him because there was a false chi IMO.

Nonsense. That's not what an ordinary, everyday level is.

Aura argument is bunk, enough of that. Powering up SSJ always comes with an aura. Goku had it as soon as he started powering up. Resting level + 1 = aura. Or not.

Luckily for us, we have a shot of 50% Goku at the very end of all that. Tell me what you see (hint: it'd be easier to tell me what you don't see :mrgreen

 

[SSJ2]

Dabra also thought that Pocus would beat the Saiyans. His words are worth jack shit.

But Dabra knew precisely Goku's kiri [3,000]... Dabra at least is smart enough to figure out his kiri is well above Goku's.

Even if we were to take that seriously, burst SSJ2 Goku was enough for Vegeta to know that he was outlcassed badly, implying that Goku wasn't far from his max prior to transforming.

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta thought that Goku [normal state] is weaker than him because there was a false chi IMO.

Nonsense. That's not what an ordinary, everyday level is.

Aura argument is bunk, enough of that. Powering up SSJ always comes with an aura. Goku had it as soon as he started powering up. Resting level + 1 = aura. Or not.

Luckily for us, we have a shot of 50% Goku at the very end of all that. Tell me what you see (hint: it'd be easier to tell me what you don't see :mrgreen

Why Vegeta thought that he could beat Perfect Cell ( Warm up ) ? Yet he could not even touch him.

Anyways, what's your point ?

 

[Kyo]

Why Vegeta thought that he could beat Perfect Cell ( Warm up ) ? Yet he could not even touch him.

This was a false chi situation. I don't understand why you're trying to apply this to Goku though.

Anyways, what's your point ?

My point is that 50% Goku has no aura.

 

[ahill1]

Dabra also thought that Pocus would beat the Saiyans. His words are worth jack shit.

But Dabra knew precisely Goku's kiri [3,000]... Dabra at least is smart enough to figure out his kiri is well above Goku's.

Even if we were to take that seriously, burst SSJ2 Goku was enough for Vegeta to know that he was outlcassed badly, implying that Goku wasn't far from his max prior to transforming.

Goku doesn't has to be at full power of SSJ for transform into SSJ2. Against Bootenks Goku was able to transform instantly in SSJ3.

 

[SSJ2]

But Dabra knew precisely Goku's kiri [3,000]... Dabra at least is smart enough to figure out his kiri is well above Goku's.

Even if we were to take that seriously, burst SSJ2 Goku was enough for Vegeta to know that he was outlcassed badly, implying that Goku wasn't far from his max prior to transforming.

Goku doesn't has to be at full power of SSJ for transform into SSJ2. Against Bootenks Goku was able to transform instantly in SSJ3.

Where did I say he was?

If SSJ forms use multipliers, then his SSJ2 was multiplied by whatever SSJ power he was just using.

 

[ahill1]

Why Vegeta thought that he could beat Perfect Cell ( Warm up ) ? Yet he could not even touch him.

This was a false chi situation. I don't understand why you're trying to apply this to Goku though.

Anyways, what's your point ?

My point is that 50% Goku has no aura.

What was Goku's Warm up power ?

Well, this was in the moment Karin told him to stop.