SSG3 Trunks vs. 50% FPSS Goku

[p123]

Yep that seals the deal.

1) 50% Goku is suggested to possibly be his full power
2) Warm up Goku = Cell Base
3) Cell's Base power is stated to be nothing compared to his true power

Which mean, Warm Up Goku couldn't possibly be 50% Goku, otherwise they would think Goku has zero chance against Cell.

 

[Super Saiyan Overlord1007]

I take Trunks' utterly shocked reaction at Goku displaying 50% of his power as a sign of inferiority. I used to have them relatively close but after reworking my numbers I have Goku being considerably stronger. I don't Trunks was THAT much stronger than Cell if he's still visibly hurt from his attacks.

 

[p123]

Cell never attacked Trunks though.

 

[Future Warrior]

Tsk Tsk Tsk. Sorry, but I think you forgot very important details in regards to Initial Goku's power.

Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P1.3-4, P2.1-4
Context: talking about the Room of Spirit and Time
Vegeta: “Well, well…So even the great Kakarot admits defeat against the rigors of that room…”
Goku: “Maybe…But pointlessly toughening up my body more than this is just torture, not training. But I won’t object if you guys enter that room again. It looks like you still have room left to toughen up more.”
Vegeta: “What was that…? I don’t like that…The way you said that made it sound like you’re saying that your true ability is greater than mine…”
Goku: “Yeah, a whole lot greater, I think.”

If Goku at 25% of his power rivals Initial P.Cell, someone who easily tanked his kick, how in the world would Vegeta be doubting Goku's abilities to defeat him? Note that Vegeta's states true ability, implying the Goku that he is talking to right now is inferior to him. Even the Z-Fighters were surprised when Goku said that he was much stronger than Vegeta was. That True ability that was mentioned was probably 50% Goku which was the whole notion of why everyone shat their pants.

Vegeta (to self): “Damn you, Kakarot… It’s always like this… He’s always a step ahead of me…! It drives me crazy…Just when I think I’ve caught up, he widens the lead again…”

Dont you think he would have said this if Initial MSSJ Goku was stronger than him? Instead, he said this AFTER Goku powered up.

Based on statements

SSJG3 Trunks (In my opinion) >> Initial Perfect Cell ~ MSSJ Goku (50%) >>> SSJG2 Vegeta > Initial MSSJ Goku

 

[ahill1]

Tsk Tsk Tsk. Sorry, but I think you forgot very important details in regards to Initial Goku's power.

Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P1.3-4, P2.1-4
Context: talking about the Room of Spirit and Time
Vegeta: “Well, well…So even the great Kakarot admits defeat against the rigors of that room…”
Goku: “Maybe…But pointlessly toughening up my body more than this is just torture, not training. But I won’t object if you guys enter that room again. It looks like you still have room left to toughen up more.”
Vegeta: “What was that…? I don’t like that…The way you said that made it sound like you’re saying that your true ability is greater than mine…”
Goku: “Yeah, a whole lot greater, I think.”

If Goku at 25% of his power rivals Initial P.Cell, someone who easily tanked his kick, how in the world would Vegeta be doubting Goku's abilities to defeat him? Note that Vegeta's states true ability, implying the Goku that he is talking to right now is inferior to him. Even the Z-Fighters were surprised when Goku said that he was much stronger than Vegeta was. That True ability that was mentioned was probably 50% Goku which was the whole notion of why everyone shat their pants.

Vegeta (to self): “Damn you, Kakarot… It’s always like this… He’s always a step ahead of me…! It drives me crazy…Just when I think I’ve caught up, he widens the lead again…”

Dont you think he would have said this if Initial MSSJ Goku was stronger than him? Instead, he said this AFTER Goku powered up.

Based on statements

SSJG3 Trunks (In my opinion) >> Initial Perfect Cell ~ MSSJ Goku (50%) >>> SSJG2 Vegeta > Initial MSSJ Goku

Nobody here said that Goku [rest state] is equal to Goku [Warm up]... Obviously Goku [Warm up] was stronger than Goku [rest state]. But Goku [Warm up] was weaker than Goku [50%].

Also, Vegeta is surprised that Goku cannot beat Cell... Why is Vegeta surprised if Goku is weaker than him ? Doesn't make sense. Trunks even wondered if Cell is that powerful. Doesn't make sense if Goku was weaker than them.

 

[Future Warrior]

Goku made no notable increase, so if you have him weaker than 50% Goku than you might as well have him at his state before he powered up.

 

[ahill1]

Goku made no notable increase, so if you have him weaker than 50% Goku than you might as well have him at his state before he powered up.

Not quite, why would I have ? Like Super Saiyan God said, doesn't make sense Goku [Warm Up] being = Goku [50%].

Besides this, why Vegeta is surprised that Goku cannot defeat Cell if he knew Goku was weaker than him ?

 

[ahill1]

Besides this, Goku FPSSJ [normal state] could be Goku FPSSJ [Warm up]... there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[SSJ2]

What % do you guys have Warm-up Goku at?

 

[ahill1]

Warm up Goku being his normal state is good to me. Vegeta thought that Goku [normal state] is weaker than him because there was a false chi IMO. The same situation apply to Vegeta vs Perfect Cell. If you are not fresh in this fight, reread it please. Vegeta is sure he can beat Cell almost with the same ease he did against Semi Cell, and yet he could not even touch this Cell in the warm up... Why ? Because Cell had a false chi. This is strengthened by Kuririn's line about Perfect Cell :

" The amount of chi you fell from it [Cell] now isn't everything... It's got more... Way, way, way more...!! " So Cell had some of false chi that tricked Vegeta's confidence. Even Kuririn had not realize it until Cell kicked him.

 

[SSJ2]

Could be attributed to resting ki vs fighting ki, and Cell activated it when Vegeta started to attack.

By normal state do you mean Base? He should at the very least be above Base.

 

[ahill1]

Could be attributed to resting ki vs fighting ki, and Cell activated it when Vegeta started to attack.

By normal state do you mean Base? He should at the very least be above Base.

I mean his SSJ rest state.

 

[SSJ2]

Oh.

I'm thinking 30% is a good level.

 

[ahill1]

Goku made no notable increase, so if you have him weaker than 50% Goku than you might as well have him at his state before he powered up.

There's a contradiction in your own line... According to you, Goku FPSSJ [50%] = Goku FPSSJ [Warm up], so how did you say that Goku made no notable increase ? Unless you think Goku FPSSJ [50%] = Goku FPSSJ [normal state].

 

[SSJ2]

I am all for Warm up Goku being below 50%, but as a former 50% = Warm up guy, I'll play devil's advocate.

Does a full power Super Saiyan at 50% need to have an aura? Goku has one as he powers up, but stops when he reaches 50. Does this have to mean that he powered back down? It was literally just stated that being in Super Saiyan doesn't cause them strain any more, so remaining at 50% wouldn't have affected him by any means.

 

[ahill1]

Oh.

I'm thinking 30% is a good level.

Yea, what do you think ?

Perfect Cell [Warm up] 30
FPSSJ Son Goku [Warm up] 30
Trunks SSJG3 36
FPSSJ Son Goku [50%] 50
Piccolo [Cell Games] 56
SSJ Trunks [Cell Games] 64
SSJ Vegeta [Cell Games] 66
Cell Jr. 70
FPSSJ Son Goku 100
FPSSJ Son Gohan 140

 

[SSJ2]

Personally I'm a Gr3 Trunks > Goku guy. Vegeta says that Goku is "one step ahead" of himself after he powers up to 50%, so I don't think it needs to be an incredible amount.

Aside from that disagreement, it looks good. I like having Vegeta = Cell Jr though.

 

[ahill1]

I am all for Warm up Goku being below 50%, but as a former 50% = Warm up guy, I'll play devil's advocate.

Does a full power Super Saiyan at 50% need to have an aura? Goku has one as he powers up, but stops when he reaches 50. Does this have to mean that he powered back down? It was literally just stated that being in Super Saiyan doesn't cause them strain any more, so remaining at 50% wouldn't have affected him by any means.

Goku [50%] had an aura, right ? Goku [Warm up] had not.

 

[SSJ2]

He had an aura as he was powering up, I don't think he needs to maintain it at 50%. He had the aura as soon as he began his power up too.

 

[ahill1]

He had an aura as he was powering up, I don't think he needs to maintain it at 50%. He had the aura as soon as he began his power up too.

So this strongly imply that Goku [50%] is not Goku [Warm up], right ?