Vegeta (vs jheese)
- Thread starter ahill1
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2015
- Messages
- 8,308
60k
- Joined
- May 31, 2015
- Messages
- 41,541
- Age
- 25
He was around 60K at least, his zenkai didn't fully effect yet until after he took a nap.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2015
- Messages
- 6,156
- Age
- 22
I think he suppressed himself to like 50k but his full power was at 480k.
- Joined
- May 30, 2015
- Messages
- 30,975
Neither did Ten to Yamcha when they fought. Yet going by how well he did against Goku and Chun he was obviously holding back a lot. You can infer Vegeta was holding back massively since
a) Jheese was shocked shitless by his battle power, implying Vegeta put little effort when he performed not that well
b) Goku who saw how weak Ginyu was in his own body immediately deduced it'd be all over if Ginyu got Vegeta's
c) Ginyu himself who saw how badly he controlled Goku's body still believed with Vegeta's body he'd win, even trying to take it a second time despite believing Goku's body to have 180,000+ at base and seeing it drop to 23,000
I can't wrap my mind around the leap of faith I'd need to take to think Goku and Ginyu would automatically presume Vegeta's body would be fully compatible all of a sudden. Both of them were weakened when their bodies were switched which makes that shit even stupider, and this also makes his jump to nearly 530,000 way more believable than him getting 10 times stronger without any note. I also don't buy the feats argument when Fat Boo didn't have good feats against Vegeta despite Piccolo stating he was strong enough to take on any number of SSJ2s, and other similar shit happening all over the series.
a) Jheese was shocked shitless by his battle power, implying Vegeta put little effort when he performed not that well
b) Goku who saw how weak Ginyu was in his own body immediately deduced it'd be all over if Ginyu got Vegeta's
c) Ginyu himself who saw how badly he controlled Goku's body still believed with Vegeta's body he'd win, even trying to take it a second time despite believing Goku's body to have 180,000+ at base and seeing it drop to 23,000
I can't wrap my mind around the leap of faith I'd need to take to think Goku and Ginyu would automatically presume Vegeta's body would be fully compatible all of a sudden. Both of them were weakened when their bodies were switched which makes that shit even stupider, and this also makes his jump to nearly 530,000 way more believable than him getting 10 times stronger without any note. I also don't buy the feats argument when Fat Boo didn't have good feats against Vegeta despite Piccolo stating he was strong enough to take on any number of SSJ2s, and other similar shit happening all over the series.
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2015
- Messages
- 14,414
I probably already asked you, but what if Ginyu thought that him not accessing Goku's battle power was an anomally because of Goku and rather thought it would be different with Vegeta's body, whereas he can actually access his true power?Atem King of Niger said:
That also makes sense considering Ginyu probably tried this technique before (and it's even implied in one of AT's quote who said he didn't know Ginyu's true body) and why would he be surprise at not being able to mastery Goku's power if it had happened before?
- Joined
- May 30, 2015
- Messages
- 30,975
I highly doubt that Goku's body is an anomaly so much as it's not a mutant body like Ginyu's other one perhaps. Even if Ginyu assumes it to be true, Goku being the first to deduce Ginyu would have also weakened, would have no reason to assume Ginyu would magically get better control over Vegeta's body.
Anyways, I think we discussed this in detail in that other thread so I don't really want to do it over again here.
On the subject of no one knowing what Ginyus body was though, that was a Daizenshuu/WSJ statement, not Toriyama.
Anyways, I think we discussed this in detail in that other thread so I don't really want to do it over again here.
On the subject of no one knowing what Ginyus body was though, that was a Daizenshuu/WSJ statement, not Toriyama.
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2015
- Messages
- 5,587
I knew it! You are a fool for this Kenshi. It's about time I correct the record.
1) Vegeta was in fear of Goku's power when Ginyu and Jeice arrive. Last Vegeta has known, Goku=Ginyu= ~65k
2) Vegeta is touting his battle power as if it's his full power. No reason to assume it's not.
3) Ginyu never decides to switch into Vegeta's body until he has no other choice to.
4) Of course Goku knows it's all over, Goku and Ginyu's body are severely damaged. If Vegeta was only back to his 30k self, it would be all over.
5) Not being able to control a body's power is unusual for Ginyu as ahill has mentioned. It would be a terrible technique if he could only access a small portion of the new body. He is assuming the new body to gain power, not have to work up to it.
6) Goku flat out tells him he cannot use his body, cannot use Kaioken and cannot even access half his power. Ginyu takes note.
Vegeta is not all that powerful, he still takes damage from Jeice and he has no feats to suggest he could beat the Goku who beat Reecome.
1) Vegeta was in fear of Goku's power when Ginyu and Jeice arrive. Last Vegeta has known, Goku=Ginyu= ~65k
2) Vegeta is touting his battle power as if it's his full power. No reason to assume it's not.
3) Ginyu never decides to switch into Vegeta's body until he has no other choice to.
4) Of course Goku knows it's all over, Goku and Ginyu's body are severely damaged. If Vegeta was only back to his 30k self, it would be all over.
5) Not being able to control a body's power is unusual for Ginyu as ahill has mentioned. It would be a terrible technique if he could only access a small portion of the new body. He is assuming the new body to gain power, not have to work up to it.
6) Goku flat out tells him he cannot use his body, cannot use Kaioken and cannot even access half his power. Ginyu takes note.
Vegeta is not all that powerful, he still takes damage from Jeice and he has no feats to suggest he could beat the Goku who beat Reecome.
- Joined
- May 30, 2015
- Messages
- 30,975
I think it's either an instance of bad writing like Trunks not realizing his new form was so slow, or the fact that most people that are over 30,000 or whatever are mutants like Ginyu said, so he didn't expect to have bad chemistry with Goku. Either way if toriyama wanted us to think Ginyu believes he can fully control Vegeta's body he'd have said it in my opinion.
Lol fuck off P. Vegeta never makes mention of what he shows against Jheese being his full power, knows Goku can multiply his BP as seen in the Saiyan arc, and Goku himself who was the first to deduce Ginyu would have a hard time controlling his body the same way he did with Ginyu's automatically assumes Vegeta's body would give him the win. Also, Ginyu-Goku only lasted so long against the duo he fought (who still hadn't taken damage) because he had Goku's face, yet they all somehow assume with Vegeta's "weaker" body he will have the upper hand? There's nothing in the narrative to suggest that Vegeta's body will be different than Goku's, whereas Vegeta directly states since ki sense was possible for another Saiyan, it should be so for him as well implying similar body types.
I'm sure there's more holes in your argument, but the shining turd in the windpipe is that Vegeta notes no increase after the nap, and you say he got 9x stronger?
Ok then. I'll just leave it there.
Lol fuck off P. Vegeta never makes mention of what he shows against Jheese being his full power, knows Goku can multiply his BP as seen in the Saiyan arc, and Goku himself who was the first to deduce Ginyu would have a hard time controlling his body the same way he did with Ginyu's automatically assumes Vegeta's body would give him the win. Also, Ginyu-Goku only lasted so long against the duo he fought (who still hadn't taken damage) because he had Goku's face, yet they all somehow assume with Vegeta's "weaker" body he will have the upper hand? There's nothing in the narrative to suggest that Vegeta's body will be different than Goku's, whereas Vegeta directly states since ki sense was possible for another Saiyan, it should be so for him as well implying similar body types.
I'm sure there's more holes in your argument, but the shining turd in the windpipe is that Vegeta notes no increase after the nap, and you say he got 9x stronger?
Ok then. I'll just leave it there.
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2015
- Messages
- 5,587
Ginyu implies he can access a new body's full power with his remarks. Goku flat out tells him he can't use his body and Ginyu takes note. Ginyu should be able to access other people's new bodies easily. Either way it's irrelevant, Ginyu in Vegeta's body merely has to compete with Krillen and Gohan, Ginyu and Goku are out of the picture.
