Viz > Herms some times

[Six Trails]

Because he doesn't want the others to know about Shin's secret.

Again, based on what? When is that ever said?

 

[SSJ2]

When kibito lost morally

 

[ahill1]

Okay, and why should the statement mean anything else in this context (Piccolo vs. Kaioshin)? Piccolo was weaker, so he forfeited. It seems rather clear-cut to me.

For once, Piccolo forfeiting because he was weaker doesn't make sense, since he entered the tournament already knowing Gohan and Goku would participate. He already knew he had no chances at the tournament and was there more for fun. Since the beginning, he didn't quite understand why he was so "paralyzed" before Kaioshin, who stated Piccolo must have realized who he was, indicating it was the cause of green man's surrender. In fact, the first thing Piccolo did after the "match" was ask if his opponent was the Great Lord of Lords, all which I said in the main post.

You are not understanding my argument. I am not saying that the literal translation is always superior or makes more sense than Viz's translation.

So far you've said that the "different order of being" means a difference in battle power because it was applied before under this context, to which I replied why I disagree with this. Right after it, you said in that instance it meant a battle power appraisal because it was stated by Herms, to which I never denied. The same way that in both Dabura's and Cell's case, it also meant a battle power appraisal, since the word used was stronger rather than tougher. Doesn't change the fact that what Viz used makes the most sense in the context.

I am saying that your example of Viz's wording of Piccolo's statement was flawed as it does not make any more sense in the context of the scene than the original does, since they both mean the same thing

That was what you said in your first comment, to which I replyed. In your second comment, you said it meant a battle power appraisal, because that was what was stated in Herms' translations.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Because he doesn't want the others to know about Shin's secret.

Again, based on what? When is that ever said?

 

[Tapion]

The words "tough" and "strong" have the same meaning in many cases, according to the Oxford Dictionary. Not to mention "strong" is what the original japanese manga uses.

 

[ahill1]

The words "tough" and "strong" have the same meaning in many cases, according to the Oxford Dictionary. Not to mention "strong" is what the original japanese manga uses.

It can mean "strong" sometimes, Viz even used it as synonymous of stronger in some instances. The point is that "tough" isn't necessarily strength relate, and in the cases I listed it makes more sense when it's not.

 

[Tapion]

"Tough" doesn't mean what you think it means in those cases.

Tough;
Difficult and requiring determination or effort:

Strong;
Powerful and difficult to resist or defeat:

In those cases, it means the same thing. Anyway, that's what is shown in the japanese manga.

Not to mention "tougher" has nothing to do with "versality and skill". It has to do with power, which is ironically what the japanese manga was referring to.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The words "tough" and "strong" have the same meaning in many cases, according to the Oxford Dictionary. Not to mention "strong" is what the original japanese manga uses.

WHat do you think about this one?

Spoiler

Was Nappa stronger because he didn't get damage from that kick to the rock?

 

[Tapion]

The words "tough" and "strong" have the same meaning in many cases, according to the Oxford Dictionary. Not to mention "strong" is what the original japanese manga uses.

WHat do you think about this one?

Spoiler

Was Nappa stronger because he didn't get damage from that kick to the rock?

Pic is not working

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The words "tough" and "strong" have the same meaning in many cases, according to the Oxford Dictionary. Not to mention "strong" is what the original japanese manga uses.

WHat do you think about this one?

Spoiler

Was Nappa stronger because he didn't get damage from that kick to the rock?

Pic is not working

 

[Tapion]

In that image, the terms "tough" and "strong" are exchangeable. If Goku said "You're as strong as i expected" it would mean the same thing.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

In that image, the terms "tough" and "strong" are exchangeable. If Goku said "You're as strong as i expected" it would mean the same thing.

He realized it after Nappa survived from that kick to the rocks which implies Nappa's durability than his actual power.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Either you go with Viz or Herms for Piccolo's statement, we have Kaioshin, at the
very next panel, thinking that Piccolo sensed his identity, so whatever Piccolo
said didn't matter; it was just some excuse for giving up.

 

[ahill1]

"Tough" doesn't mean what you think it means in those cases.

It does, or at least it'd make more sense that way. Goku already knew that Cell was > his 100%, so saying he is stronger over an warm up fight doesn't make sense. The same with Dabura, where Goku brought up his magic, which makes him a tougher opponent, not a stronger one.

Tough;
Difficult and requiring determination or effort:

That's one of the definitions. Also, even if you didn't realize, this definition makes a lot of sense with versatility and skills. The versatility of an opponent makes him a difficult one to defeat, thus making him "tougher, which makes more sense than being referred as "stronger" in terms of higher chi, unless the "way stronger" in Herms' translations isn't referring to the amount of chi, but to being a more difficult foe.

Anyway, that's what is shown in the japanese manga.

Which, again, isn't my point. Since the beginning I aknowledged what was said in the original.

Not to mention "tougher" has nothing to do with "versality and skill".

It does, like I referred in my post above. Skills (in Daburas's case magic) make him a tougher opponent, not necessarily a more powerful one, unless the "stronger" was used to designate him also being a more difficult opponent. If you look at the definition of tough and strong, you'll see the first thing related to the former is "difficult", whereas the term "powerful" is the first thing related to the latter.

Not only does the context of Goku bringing up magic makes "tougher" a better term, look at Gohan's face when Vegeta was saying Dabura isn't difficult to beat:

http://mangalife.org/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-256-index-2-page-5.html

Gohan is clearly in disagreement of Vegeta saying any of the three could handle Dabura. If Dabura were a lot more powerful than predicted, and by extension Gohan, this latter would also be able to easily handle the Makaioshin.

 

[p123]

Yea I don't think "different order or being" is meant to be in terms of pure power. Piccolo is suggesting that Kaioshin is indeed stronger to Goku, but in a sly way. No one actually knows how strong Kaioshin is. So Viz is superior to Herms in this instance as well as many others.

 

[ahill1]

Yea I don't think "different order or being" is meant to be in terms of pure power. Piccolo is suggesting that Kaioshin is indeed stronger to Goku, but in a sly way. No one actually knows how strong Kaioshin is. So Viz is superior to Herms in this instance as well as many others.

Reading the scene again, I think Piccolo's response being in terms of power makes more sense now. Goku's question was clearly referring to power (was that bad?) and Kuririn being afraid to fight Shin also makes more sense if Piccolo's statement was power related, don't you think?

Considering Goku's question and Kuririn's reaction, I think a power statement makes sense now.

 

[p123]

Yes. Goku is asking how powerful he is, Piccolo says he's incredibly powerful. But we know between Piccolo and Kaioshin's conversation it isn't actually about power. Judging by the context of their conversation, it was not a power reading thing, but a god reading thing.

Now this does not mean Kaioshin can't be stronger than Piccolo, I just think at this point, it isn't 100% clear.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, I think Piccolo's response to Goku was pertaining to power, but only so he'd not have to go in details about Shin's identity, something he wasn't even sure of. In fact, the first thing Piccolo does is ask if Kaioshin was the Great Lord of Worlds, so that's the context of Piccolo's surrender, I guess.

 

[p123]

That's how I always interpreted the scene. I personally don't think Kaioshin should be rated. It is all over the place, it's too difficult to make sense of it. On one hand, he appears to be a monster, on the other hand, he looks like dog shit. So it is very, very difficult.

It also depends on where Gohan stands in terms of Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2. Also can't forget Super Saiyan Goku shutting him down.

So all in all, Super Saiyan Goku, most likely Super Saiyan Gohan are all greatly superior to Kaioshin, but if he's stronger than Piccolo, there's really not much breathing room for him to both be massively weaker than Super Saiyans and vastly superior to Piccolo. If Piccolo is anywhere close to a Cell Jr that is.

 

[Kyo]

that nigga can't even sense kaioshin smh someone prove otherwise or lick my balls