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- Jun 15, 2016
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As far as debating goes anyway....
Toriyama has always made things at least a tad bit... open to interpretation, unless blatant facts are said of course... But even so, now a days, he is just too all over the place.
I haven't debated DB seriously in a few years for various reasons including just not feeling it anymore and finding serious debating to be silly these days. I just enjoy the ride as a piece of entertainment fiction as it is meant to be. No matter how little certain things make sense or how people interpret certain things differently, DB is great at keeping your attention with intense action and comedy, both of which can be hit or miss, but more hits than misses obviously. At least, in original DB/Z.... Super has been meh for the majority although Goku Black is looking promising and rejuvenating my interest in Super, even though his design and shit is just lazy as well.
ANYWAY..... The straw that broke the camel's back for me is just how ridiculous Toriyama can be. Saying one thing, doing another. Lazy ideas as of lately with Super. But what really makes debating DB pointless for me is what he said about Roshi in that interview from a little while back.
Roshi was in the one hundreds in DB, scouted to be 139 in Z, yet during FnF he is somehow strong enough to tangle with dudes well above 500 with no training or no explanation just out of the blue? Then had the audacity to say "LOL, Roshi can be that strong, but only when he feels like it! Lolol!!"
So not only does that make Toriyama look dumb, but makes Roshi look like a douchebag. He could have one shotted the RR Army, Daimao, even Piccolo Jr. but didn't whyyyy again? Oh, right, cause he didn't feel like it. So he put the Earth at risk cause he wasn't feeling it. Stand up guy!
Obviously in original DB this isn't the case at all, retcons or interviews won't change that fact for most of us fans at THAT time.... Same way there is no way Freeza could go from weaker than an untrained SSJ to rival god tier in 4 months, or know about Beerus or Buu AT THAT TIME during the Namek arc.
People sometimes argue over plot device/writing VS. In universe explanations, and often times say using plot device/writing logic over in universe is boring and unimaginative. But no matter how you look at it, plot device and writing is everything. Without it, you wouldn't even be able to entertain in universe logic to begin with. Not to mention Toriyama's nonsense over the last few years has been anything BUT imaginative. Lazy and forgetful =/= imaginative, nor should it be used to excuse poor logic/writing from the author himself in favor of in universe logic.
Fact is Roshi was never above the one hundreds in DB/Z, and Beerus and Buu didn't exist during the Z Freeza arc. Plain and simple. They were not even thoughts in Toriyama's head back then. If they were, Toriyama would have conceptualized this present shit in a much better fashion that makes sense and fits. Had it fit, then I would be more willing to accept the in universe logic.
Plus whether he had all that shit in his mind in the past or not is irrelevant, he still coulda made it fit with more sense if he put some REAL thought into it regardless.
I just dont get it..... No matter my thoughts on debating for other reasons, what Toriyama has pulled as of late makes debating it utterly pointless and a waste of time. Who's to say he won't come out tomorrow and say Mecha Freeza at 100% wasn't actually Vegetto tier? Or that SPC was actually close to SSJ3 strength but "Didn't feel like using that much strength"...
The man is making a mockery of his own universe to the point you can't even use in universe logic anymore.... At least, outside of a specific arc anyway.
Look, I still love DB.... Always will! It is still my favorite anime of all time, always will be, but that's only because I don't expect perfection, perfect sense, or constant consistency. It's the action, funny humorous moments, and cool characters that make me love it, not it's superior writing or logic. But there is no denying how DB is one of the most undebatable franchises out there, especially now a days....
But, that doesn't stop some people from attempting to do so.
I just no longer see the point. Now more than ever.
Before you know it, "SSJ all the colors of the rainbow" Vegetto KK x 20 will still be below Beerus.
Toriyama has always made things at least a tad bit... open to interpretation, unless blatant facts are said of course... But even so, now a days, he is just too all over the place.
I haven't debated DB seriously in a few years for various reasons including just not feeling it anymore and finding serious debating to be silly these days. I just enjoy the ride as a piece of entertainment fiction as it is meant to be. No matter how little certain things make sense or how people interpret certain things differently, DB is great at keeping your attention with intense action and comedy, both of which can be hit or miss, but more hits than misses obviously. At least, in original DB/Z.... Super has been meh for the majority although Goku Black is looking promising and rejuvenating my interest in Super, even though his design and shit is just lazy as well.
ANYWAY..... The straw that broke the camel's back for me is just how ridiculous Toriyama can be. Saying one thing, doing another. Lazy ideas as of lately with Super. But what really makes debating DB pointless for me is what he said about Roshi in that interview from a little while back.
Roshi was in the one hundreds in DB, scouted to be 139 in Z, yet during FnF he is somehow strong enough to tangle with dudes well above 500 with no training or no explanation just out of the blue? Then had the audacity to say "LOL, Roshi can be that strong, but only when he feels like it! Lolol!!"
So not only does that make Toriyama look dumb, but makes Roshi look like a douchebag. He could have one shotted the RR Army, Daimao, even Piccolo Jr. but didn't whyyyy again? Oh, right, cause he didn't feel like it. So he put the Earth at risk cause he wasn't feeling it. Stand up guy!
Obviously in original DB this isn't the case at all, retcons or interviews won't change that fact for most of us fans at THAT time.... Same way there is no way Freeza could go from weaker than an untrained SSJ to rival god tier in 4 months, or know about Beerus or Buu AT THAT TIME during the Namek arc.
People sometimes argue over plot device/writing VS. In universe explanations, and often times say using plot device/writing logic over in universe is boring and unimaginative. But no matter how you look at it, plot device and writing is everything. Without it, you wouldn't even be able to entertain in universe logic to begin with. Not to mention Toriyama's nonsense over the last few years has been anything BUT imaginative. Lazy and forgetful =/= imaginative, nor should it be used to excuse poor logic/writing from the author himself in favor of in universe logic.
Fact is Roshi was never above the one hundreds in DB/Z, and Beerus and Buu didn't exist during the Z Freeza arc. Plain and simple. They were not even thoughts in Toriyama's head back then. If they were, Toriyama would have conceptualized this present shit in a much better fashion that makes sense and fits. Had it fit, then I would be more willing to accept the in universe logic.
Plus whether he had all that shit in his mind in the past or not is irrelevant, he still coulda made it fit with more sense if he put some REAL thought into it regardless.
I just dont get it..... No matter my thoughts on debating for other reasons, what Toriyama has pulled as of late makes debating it utterly pointless and a waste of time. Who's to say he won't come out tomorrow and say Mecha Freeza at 100% wasn't actually Vegetto tier? Or that SPC was actually close to SSJ3 strength but "Didn't feel like using that much strength"...
The man is making a mockery of his own universe to the point you can't even use in universe logic anymore.... At least, outside of a specific arc anyway.
Look, I still love DB.... Always will! It is still my favorite anime of all time, always will be, but that's only because I don't expect perfection, perfect sense, or constant consistency. It's the action, funny humorous moments, and cool characters that make me love it, not it's superior writing or logic. But there is no denying how DB is one of the most undebatable franchises out there, especially now a days....
But, that doesn't stop some people from attempting to do so.
I just no longer see the point. Now more than ever.
Before you know it, "SSJ all the colors of the rainbow" Vegetto KK x 20 will still be below Beerus.
dawg
Free Ukraine 