Yoshi's Battle Powers
- Thread starter Yoshi
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Pretty good list, but I think I can offer some help:
Saibaiman - 1,200
Raditz - 1,250
Yamcha - 1,320
Chapter: 284 (DBZ 90), P3.6
Context: after fighting Goku for a little bit
Ginyu: “I see. Seems you’re even more capable than I thought…”
I like to think he underestimated Goku here by the same amount he underestimated Goku's 90k (thought it was 85k).
Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P1.4, P2.1-5, P3.1
Nail: “I-I’m astonished…I don’t know what kind of training you’ve done, but you’ve acquired unbelievable power…Still, it’s unfortunate…If you had only returned to the original, single Namekian you were, you might have been able to defeat even Freeza…”
Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”
"He thinks he can probably go alone", I.E, he isn't sure of anything. Unless you think Freeza was expecting Goku to power up?
I don't think Goku and Piccolo were ahead of their scouter readings, 416 and 408 respectively. There's nothing suggesting that reading was wrong. There's no power up scenes at all except the panels depicting Goku charging the KMHMH or Piccolo gathering the Makankosappo.
Kuririn > Gohan imo, considering in their arrival of Namek, weighted Kuririn had about the same read as Gohan without weight clothes. There's the spaceship train showing Kuririn running out of his fight against Gohan though, so I'm not entirely sure about it.
I don't know about Raditz > Yamcha. Raditz was said to rival the Saibaimans. While Yamcha resorted to use a Zanzo-ken (at least it seems like it), he would have won if not taken by surprise.
Saibaiman - 1,200
Raditz - 1,250
Yamcha - 1,320
What do you mean 'fake initial'? He was never read as 8000, so his 5000 power level should be his initial.
Actually, it should be a little over 60,000. After fighting Goku a little, Ginyu stated he's even better than thought (60k).
Chapter: 284 (DBZ 90), P3.6
Context: after fighting Goku for a little bit
Ginyu: “I see. Seems you’re even more capable than I thought…”
I like to think he underestimated Goku here by the same amount he underestimated Goku's 90k (thought it was 85k).
Did Gohan get weaker?! Why?
He was stated to be above 10,000 by Jheese. The Daizenshuu has it at 14,000 and Kuririn at 13,000. Honestly that as high as I'd go. Don't you think Jheese would have specified if it was that high? He would have stated "it's close to 20,000" rather than "above 10,000" imo.
When this 3rd Zenkai happened? Are you referring to his nap?
His post train level seems way too high, considering Nail stated that he might be able to beat Freeza after rejoining Kami, that is, he wasn't 100% sure. I'd put Kamiccolo Freeza saga only a notch above 1st form Freeza or so:
Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P1.4, P2.1-5, P3.1
Nail: “I-I’m astonished…I don’t know what kind of training you’ve done, but you’ve acquired unbelievable power…Still, it’s unfortunate…If you had only returned to the original, single Namekian you were, you might have been able to defeat even Freeza…”
Seems a gap way too pronounced. They fought pretty evenly with Piccolo getting the last word at the end. Kuririn even thought they were equal. Do you really see this gap as the same between Vegeta (24k) and monster Zarbon (28k)?
That's in the Mecha saga, right? Piccolo challenged Vegeta, saying "huh, you wanna try me?", which would imply Piccolo more or less caught to Vegeta here IMO. I don't see Piccolo being ready to fight Vegeta while being in an one-shot range. Gohan even said in the Freeza arc Piccolo must have a reason if he wants fight:
Freeza said that now he probably go alone against Goku, that is, he wasn't sure. Don't you think he'd be more cocky with a whooping 1.2x gap (à la Vegeta 24k vs Dodoria)?
Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”
"He thinks he can probably go alone", I.E, he isn't sure of anything. Unless you think Freeza was expecting Goku to power up?
I think Vegeta's gap over 50% MSSJ Goku is too pronounced here. Don't you think Vegeta would show off more of his arrogance if he were that above the power Goku showed Karin? Sure, he displayed confidence, but he wasn't overflowing of it.
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I agree with all your points except for two, and even then, you have very solid arguments for them. In fact, I was always on the fence whether or not Vegeta was in the 100,000s until you pointed it out. But there's two things I disagree with.
I like to believe Raditz didn't have a humongous gap on Goku and Piccolo and that they were hiding their true battle powers and briefly unleashed them when they attacked. Ki blasts also shouldn't be that high in amplification early on considering how Piccolo mocked Cell's Kamehameha.
Freeza told Nail that he would hold back against him IIRC, and Piccolo as well as Gohan and Krillin were still confident he could help out against Freeza. That's just my personal interpretation though.
I like to believe Raditz didn't have a humongous gap on Goku and Piccolo and that they were hiding their true battle powers and briefly unleashed them when they attacked. Ki blasts also shouldn't be that high in amplification early on considering how Piccolo mocked Cell's Kamehameha.
Freeza told Nail that he would hold back against him IIRC, and Piccolo as well as Gohan and Krillin were still confident he could help out against Freeza. That's just my personal interpretation though.
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I see, but I think something like they briefly increasing their battle powers would have been suggested, through a statement or something. After the first attack, Raditz made reference about their defenses being better than he thought, but that's about it.Yoshi said:
That's true. I also find Piccolo laughing at a battle power 2.22x+, which should be well above his own, weird.Yoshi said:
Well, when Freeza was charging his power, Nail pointed out to Piccolo he had no chance to beat Freeza at the level he was. And Piccolo pretty much agreed with him. Look at how he felt about it:Yoshi said:
http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/gain_1.php?did=0-0-19&fpp=10&fid=155
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I've decided against both of your stances. For Goku and Piccolo VS Raditz, it's a matter of making things more consistent, as well as preventing bloating.
As for Piccolo Pre Fusion VS First Form Freeza, Freeza told Nail his full power, 530,000. That's still no match for Piccolo.
Anyway, I decided to bloat the Cell Games portion of the Cell Arc a bit. Trunks blew Imperfect Cell away from the city, so he's probably a fair deal stronger.
As for Piccolo Pre Fusion VS First Form Freeza, Freeza told Nail his full power, 530,000. That's still no match for Piccolo.
Anyway, I decided to bloat the Cell Games portion of the Cell Arc a bit. Trunks blew Imperfect Cell away from the city, so he's probably a fair deal stronger.
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Right, he could, but I don't think that's suggested. I think what was more suggested is Ginyu still underestimating Goku a little. Of course it should not be by a great amount, since Goku still needs to be noticeable below 85k, which was Ginyu's estimations for Son's full power.Zoro said:
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Piccolo said he was going to save the two of them, which highly suggest he would be at least as powerful. Also, Vegeta did mention Gohan's rage makes his power skyrocket, which means his base power doesn't need to be > Piccolo.
