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Fair enough.

If it's the "same" only in regard to "type", then that isn't really "same". Same is an all encompassing thing unless stated otherwise.

Herms only noticed that Gohan didn't say the "same amount of chi". He didn't say the statement should be interpreted as "the same TYPE of chi" either. The statement remains open, with the "same chi" possibly indicating everything that follows the word same -- type and amount. I don't...

I think both are around the same power. Granted that Goku had more problems with Metallic, but he wasn't going all out, whereas he gave it all against Blue from the get go. Still, Metallic managed to surprise Goku with his durability and attacks (like the flying hand), so Metallic would likely...

@Super Saiyan That's a good catch, but remember that Vegeta also reverted down to base after destroying #19 and he had enough power to wipe #19's ass beforehand with a SSJ. So I don't think automatically reverting down to base necessarily means you were very low on SSJ usage. Gohan was also not...

Well, that's one way to look at it, but don't you think it'd be pointed out if Gohan started training in SSJ and then regressed to base? All we have is base Gohan fending off SSJ Trunks relatively easy. Trunks also had his aura up for the exchange, so I also wonder if he was THAT weakened. Gohan...

Well, I've the SSJ shrinking to a 10x multiplier post the Freeza fight. Since Trunks SSJ was at most stalemating a base Gohan, then I can't see him as that strong. Namek Freeza 140,000,000 Mecha Freeza 160,000,000 SSJ Gohan (1 arm) 180,000,000 Base Gohan -- 18,000,000 SSJ kid Trunks -- 16,000,000

Freeza stomps.

I likely thought this was a good match since I use a 2.5x amp for SSJ post fusion :king

But Ginyu's instinct revolved around him assigning base Goku based on his look and his observation over base Goku. Freeza at least experienced Kaioken (if we assume Goku used Kaioken), so he had sightly more grounds to base his assumption off. Ginyu also tangled in a brief clash against base...

Well, Ginyu at least wasn't so off in his estimations in regards to Goku's base power (85k vs 90k). He didn't know nor experience the Kaioken back then.

Yeah, but it'd make more sense, at least. It'd be less of a jumping to conclusions. If he didn't even see the technique at all, then that raises more of a question. If he at least saw a glimpse of the technique, it makes more sense for him to base his predictions on.

Well, if he were using a low level of Kaioken there, then it helps making more sense of Freeza knowing he wasn't using 100%, as Freeza would have at least experienced the technique, even if briefly. Also, weren't Goku's pupils a little like his Kaioken's one when he attacked no-hands Freeza?

I was always conflicted on this one. Did he use Kaioken when engaging no-hands Freeza? Or was that merely him putting forth his true base power? The full colors seems to lean towards the latter, but in the black and white manga Goku seemed to have some distinctive pupils iirc, which generally...

Damaged the way he is? Well, maybe Chopper could help getting him back in form, but I'd think it'd take some time.

Gogeta shit stomps. Tenshinhan ain't that level. Piccolo (boo saga) Vs Vegeta (Cell Games)

Do you guys think Zolo will still take part in the fighting? Maybe offer Sanji some help against Queen?

@Captain Cadaver Well, it was also shown when kid Goku stated Young Piccolo Daimao's Bakuretsu Maha wouldn't be as strong in his 2nd attempt since he's already wasted.

Yeah, I meant Chrollo, my smartphone corrected to that.

Well, he didn't seem too surprised at Vegeta rebeling. But maybe yeah, that wouldn't stop other Saiyajins from breeding and possibly producing another Saiyajin with the potential to become a threat.