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Buu still has better stamina than Gotenks whose fusion could run out of time, it was not an easy task for Kid Buu at the beginning of the fight to deal with him, is less possible for Gotenks to win just in base form.

What are you talking about here? Because he has already absorbed some of his energy and considering that he speedblitzed Vegeta (which is the only good feat he has by himself) would make him think he is far closer than what he actually is. Plus, surpassing Vegeta was his main goal as stated by...

He didn't, when Freeza increased his power to 70% against SSJ Goku, he said so himself. Freeza was just that superior to Vegeta to the point that he can deflect a full power attack from him with little effort.

Therefore, they are not official and just fan-speculation. Everything Gero knows is that Vegeta is stronger and that he can't deal with him. Something like this could work: Gero 90 Vegeta (in Gero's mind) 90.5 Gero after absorbing 110+ Plus, the whole context is Gero thinking in other...

If they exist, the numbers would have been given to us in the narrative or the story itself. Not even guidebooks give us that information; therefore are non-existent. The reasoning of 'expected' doesn't make sense. Or is 'expected' going to mean that thing A is actually better or worse than...

I think I agree with this post. Vegeta and Gohan were confident on defeating 1st form Freeza if they were to team up with Krillin against Freeza thinking that three ants can't oppose to one dinosaur (analogy-wise, of course), therefore we have 2 statements of the team winning against 1 statement...

Which is why I pointed why people judge Gero by instances that are not the case to say that he is always wrong. I was actually conceding you that point. It's still headcanon because there are no numerical values given in the story and Toriyama scripted on Vegeta that saiyans can't be understand...

This whole topic relies more on estimations and aproximations based on headcanon, judging Gero by instances that are not the case to prove that he is always wrong and analogies based on merely conjectures. The most logical option will always still be: Gero would still be stomped by SSJ Vegeta...

A big deal? Because of what? Because it shook the Earth? We've already seen someone doing that before.

Or maybe Vegeta was close to full power.

I disagree with the first claim, but agree with the second one (fusion was the only way to win as stated by Goku himself and unless evolved and Kaioken Blue exist in this universe which I find unlikely at best considering that if follows anime continuity, then SSJ Broly was stronger than both of...

I always considered that Freeza was using only a little bit of more effort using his speed against Vegeta... I mean, their initial attacks were directed at people that can't actually oppose to him. Vegeta is nowhere near initial 4th form Freeza and was delusional with the thought of beating him.

Which is not implied at all, and even if Fat Buu = Good Buu, wasn't Fat Buu already stronger than Majin Vegeta?

The best argument someone can come up with to support the idea of Goku and Vegeta got stronger after Vegetto defusing is the comment of Vegeta about Goku and Kid Buu being stronger than what he imagined, Vegeta could grasp SSJ3 Goku's movements by observing him fighting Fat Buu, but Goku didn't...

Kaioken x1 doesn't exist. Also the whole Kaioken additive theory doesn't make sense as the narrator states that not even Goku doubling his strength through the Kaioken was enough to stop Vegeta, plus, Vegeta's power was officially 18,000 as stated in the story and not 18,500.

Didn't Gero considered 16 as a failure? also by the way he speaks doesn't seem like he is bluffing.

1- Why would Gero's estimates override Vegeta's statement about "saiyans can't be understood just by calculations"...? 2- If Gero can't read powers that are far beyond their own, how could he know that 16 would kill them all? 3- How much superior does 20 needs to be in relation to 19 in order...

People seems to be under the impression that the whole reason that Piccolo decided to use the Rosat is due to Super Buu, but that was after they were cornered, not before, we don't know what plan Piccolo exactly have but we know they had 1 day and that they need training (we also have Piccolo...

Chapter: 480 (DBZ 286), P13.2-3 Context: after Gotenks returns from fighting Boo Gotenks: “I got the tar beaten out of me…” Piccolo: “Alright, your fight with Majin Boo is 1 day from now! Until then, train as much as you can! If you get even a little bit stronger, it will be more effective when...

Fat Buu was still there when Goku made that statement, Super Buu hadn't come into existence. Goku considered Gotenks' plan as a gamble and Piccolo considers that Gotenks needs more training. Everything else it's too speculative, Piccolo considers Gotenks' power impressive but don't exactly...