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Personally, I don't have any problem with Gotenks, but the truth is that he only started being relevant due to the ssj3 and being superior to Super Buu, any other implication is just out of place. lol

I agree.

Hit was perfoming poorly due to not being fast enough to keep up with him, as the fight continues going on, Toppo states that he is adapting to his speed and later on, he was fighting evenly with him, at the end of the chapter, Goku acknowledge that he has gotten stronger once again. Hit was...

Yeah, but one thing is know that someone has divine ki and another is know the exact multiplier of the form (which we don't know wheter Zamasu knows, since he was also impressed by Kaioken ssjb goku). Or maybe they can't tell how strong are characters far stronger than them... Yeah, and he had...

He was defenseless at that point. Plus, we've seen characters not seeing coming attacks and receiving no damage.

I have: ssj Vegeta (androids arc) = 310 Android 18 = 340 Android 17 and Kamiccolo = 350 Light grenade (high ball) = 450 Imperfect Cell post and Android 16 = 480 ssj2 Vegeta (androids arc) = 620 (x2 multiplier) I personally don't understand why the Light grenade have to be that far above...

I dont think being angry means something Semi perfect Cell was angry with tenshinhan after receiving the shin kikoho, even tho it doesn´t cause him any damage neither that attack was on Cell's level, perhaps at that point he still considered them as non threats and after that, he watched them as...

Do you have an statement fot that? iirc Zamasu only mentions that is the ki of deities, I doubt that they can get a grasp of how strong they are, especially when Gowasu at the beginning thought Goku could rival beerus without using any divine transformation, they seems to be pretty much unaware...

What I've always understand from this is that Zamasu's arrogance & the fact that he underestimated saiyans/mortals potential made him lost that beam struggle against ssjb Goku. After that, it was never stated that he got stronger or that his ki increased and still Goku & Vegeta considered...

I dont see why that have to include Hit, especially when Vegeta only comments that Zamasu was the strongest ki he ever felt one episode after (which puts him above ssjblue kaioken x10 Goku and Hit from Champa arc), he never gave black that treatment in episode 64. Plus, observing and sensing are...

This have nothing to do with Super Perfect Cell, it´s just about Perfect Cell in general terms.

What do you think about this?

Who do you guys think is winning on this one?

I prefer the manga version of this.

I agree and I think is a great analysis However, at least in Super "tough" is referred to general powerlevel term, when someone says "is tougher than you think" or "this guy is really tough" is referring to their level of strength, we also seen this with 17 being surprised of how strong Golden...

What do you think?

If we take Daizenshuu statement about Base Vegetto being above SSJ3 Goku, Cell has no shot here.

Well, Goku and Vegeta at that point had a lot of story together. Plus, is on Saiyan psycology to get excited the more stronger the oponent is. The fact that Goku hided SSJ3 during that encounter truly hurt Vegeta's pride. Vegeta got emotional while watching how strong Goku and Kid Boo were and...

Goku is a saiyan addict to fighting, so he will be always excited of fighting someone strong. Goku was also excited to fight someone stronger than Freeza back in the Android arc just as he was excited to fight someone stronger than Vegeta prior to the Namek trip.

I agree, even before, he doesn't have any problem on letting him train first in the ROSAT alongside Trunks even though he knew he was stronger than him.