base Gotenks (post Rosat) vs SSJ3 Goku

[Kidbuu55]

According to these power levels that Toriyama approved, Gotenks is stronger than Goku: https://dragonballfact.wordpress.com/

Lol!

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Goku is infinite.

 

[Zoom]

There was no contradiction regarding Ssj Gotenks Pre-RoSat > Ssj3 Goku. Some people can even argue that Ssj3 Goku > Ssj1 Gotenks Pre-RoSat > Fat Buu with Goku being a compulsive liar, but I'd rather go with the evidence that has the least contradictory path with Gotenks > Goku until proven otherwise.

For base Gotenks Post to win this battle, he has to gain whatever the gap between base and Ssj. From the start Trunks assumes they could defeat Buu in their base forms (he did the same thing with Fat Buu) and Piccolo after witnessing and sensing the boys do perfect fusion, had high hopes.

So according to Piccolo: base Gotenks ~or slightly > Evil Buu.

and according to Trunks; base Gotenks > Evil Buu.

As the fight progressed Gotenks was proven wrong and Piccolo withdrawn his own statement by saying "there's no hope".

Did Gotenks increase in power? For sure he did, naturally anyone going in the RoSat will increase and if you add Piccolo's comment about the boys increasing, it's clear that Gotenks Post-RoSat > Gotenks Pre-RoSat. But since the evidence used to determine how much Gotenks increased was Piccolo's own confidence and since he withdrew that statement according to base Gotenks own performance. So it's hard to place him. I go with;

Ssj Gotenks Pre-Rosat > Gotenk Post-RoSat > Ssj3 Goku > Kid Buu > Fat Buu.

 

[Kidbuu55]

There was no contradiction regarding Ssj Gotenks Pre-RoSat > Ssj3 Goku. Some people can even argue that Ssj3 Goku > Ssj1 Gotenks Pre-RoSat > Fat Buu with Goku being a compulsive liar, but I'd rather go with the evidence that has the least contradictory path with Gotenks > Goku until proven otherwise.

There is no statement that says Gotenks is on par or greater than Goku or Fat Buu.

For base Gotenks Post to win this battle, he has to gain whatever the gap between base and Ssj. From the start Trunks assumes they could defeat Buu in their base forms (he did the same thing with Fat Buu) and Piccolo after witnessing and sensing the boys do perfect fusion, had high hopes.

Quickly proven incorrect. Gotenks previously thought his previous base form could match Fat Buu.

So according to Piccolo: base Gotenks ~or slightly > Evil Buu.

and according to Trunks; base Gotenks > Evil Buu.

As the fight progressed Gotenks was proven wrong and Piccolo withdrawn his own statement by saying "there's no hope".

There was no "fight" Piccolo said "this might work", and quickly corrected himself. Again, there is no confirmation here that Gotenks is on par with Buu, much less Goku.

Did Gotenks increase in power? For sure he did, naturally anyone going in the RoSat will increase and if you add Piccolo's comment about the boys increasing, it's clear that Gotenks Post-RoSat > Gotenks Pre-RoSat. But since the evidence used to determine how much Gotenks increased was Piccolo's own confidence and since he withdrew that statement according to base Gotenks own performance. So it's hard to place him. I go with;

Ssj Gotenks Pre-Rosat > Gotenk Post-RoSat > Ssj3 Goku > Kid Buu > Fat Buu.

Gotenks was only said to be the strongest person Buu had face AFTER he achieves his SSJ3 form, so that chain is impossible.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

Gotenks was only said to be the strongest person Buu had face AFTER he achieves his SSJ3 form, so that chain is impossible.

Correction, Gotenks was said to be the strongest person Boo had to face evenly as Evil Boo.

 

[Kidbuu55]

Gotenks was only said to be the strongest person Buu had face AFTER he achieves his SSJ3 form, so that chain is impossible.

Correction, Gotenks was said to be the strongest person Boo had to face evenly as Evil Boo.

First person on par with Buu. Again, a statement he didn't make previously with his SSJ form.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

Again, how does disprove:''Ssj Gotenks Pre-Rosat > Gotenk Post-RoSat > Ssj3 Goku'

 

[Kidbuu55]

How does that make SSJ Gotenks weaker than SSJ3 Goku?

Chapter: 495 (DBZ 301), P6.1-3, P7.1-3
Context: after Gotenks blasts Boo with the Rapid-Fire Die-Die Missiles and Piccolo stops him
Piccolo: “N-no…He is weakened…I don’t know about physically, but he’s weakened a little mentally…! Th-this is the first time…that he’s fought someone strong like you…He’s feeling flustered by someone whose strength is at least on par with his own…”

Evil Boo is flustered, because Gotenks is on par with him.
How does that quote make a weaker form of Gotenks weaker than Goku?

Piccolo didn't say that with his previous form, because SSJ1 Gotenks obviously wasn't as strong as Evil Boo.
Again, how does disprove:''Ssj Gotenks Pre-Rosat > Gotenk Post-RoSat > Ssj3 Goku'

'This is first time he fought someone strong like you' is a dead giveaway, it's Piccolo commenting directly on Gotenks strength, the next statement is comparing Gotenks to Buu. Even though Gotenks managed to blow Buu up (though still fail at killing him) while as a SSJ in Rosat, Piccolo didn't make those comments. This also goes along with the Daizenshuu entry that Gotenks was weaker than even Vegeta until after ROSAT.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

It doesn't really mean anything, other than that Evil Boo had no equal prior to Gotenks transforming.
Piccolo didn't make those comments, because Boo wasn't actually flustered by Gotenks' tricks in the RoSaT.

I fail to understand, how would that Daizenshuu statement even relate to this.

 

[ahill1]

I don't see how this implies Goku SSJ3 > Gotenks SSJ. But this statement at least shows Gotenks SSJ3 > Goku SSJ3.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

It implies that nobody was able to make Boo like shit until SS3 Gotenks did and before that Goku did.

 

[kriss-]

I've never been impressed with Gotenks, so he loses here.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

It implies that nobody was able to make Boo like shit until SS3 Gotenks did and before that Goku did.

Yeah, but Evil Boo and Fat Boo are two different entities.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

ANd he thought they're both same.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

They aren't.
Evil Boo is better at everything.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I was talking about Kidbuu.

 

[Kidbuu55]

They aren't.
Evil Boo is better at everything.

And? Either people made Buu afraid or they didn't. What stands out is the claim isn't made before this, even though Gotenks actually faces Buu as an SSJ.

 

[Kidbuu55]

It doesn't really mean anything, other than that Evil Boo had no equal prior to Gotenks transforming.
Piccolo didn't make those comments, because Boo wasn't actually flustered by Gotenks' tricks in the RoSaT.

I fail to understand, how would that Daizenshuu statement even relate to this.

Sure, let me help you:

If Gotenks is stronger than VEGETA after Rosat, due to leveling up (SSJ3) but NOT Goku, it's obviously impossible for him to be stronger than Goku in base form.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

And? Either people made Buu afraid or they didn't. What stands out is the claim isn't made before this, even though Gotenks actually faces Buu as an SSJ.

Why would it need to be made, if he didn't actually anger Evil Boo before as a SSJ?

Gotenks wasn't Evil Boo's equal as a SSJ, that much is clear.
Gotenks is strong enough to fight on par with Evil Boo after ascending and that angered Evil Boo, who prior to Gotenks ascending, had no equal.

How does any of this make SSJ Gotenks weaker than Goku?

If Gotenks is stronger than VEGETA after Rosat, due to leveling up (SSJ3) but NOT Goku, it's obviously impossible for him to be stronger than Goku in base form.

Not only are you twisting that statement to mean ''leveling up=gain SSJ3'', but also ignoring the fact, that that statement also includes ''others'', who could only be Gohan, Piccolo, Kaioshin and even the kids themselves, because they are the strongest fighters after Vegeta.
So according to you, SSJ Gotenks<Piccolo?

That ridiculous notion is not supported anywhere in the manga and clearly shows that statement was vaguely worded in order to hide the fact, that Gotenks surpassed Goku, because Daizenshuu is a guidebook to both the manga and the anime and the anime's bullsh*t shows Goku as Gohan and Gotenks' superior.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Fuk Daizenshuu, non need to use them.