Cell Games Piccolo

[Victorious]

He doesnt seem much stronger at all does he? I think he's well below Kaioshin, and how strong is Kaioshin?

 

[Victorious]

Dodoria who I have at 20,000 was scared as hell to fight 24,000 Vegeta, so i'd say that's as high as Kamiccolo stacks to Kaioshin.

Kaioshin should be weaker than Dabura and SSJ1 Teen Gohan. He clearly needs to be below Dabura.

So yeah Kamiccolo is maybe as strong as a Cell Junior in the Buu arc? He didnt make hardly any gains. As I said he was basically all maxed out after the RoSaT. It's too bad he was quite the beast in the Cell saga and very relevant.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Dodoria who I have at 20,000 was scared as hell to fight 24,000 Vegeta, so i'd say that's as high as Kamiccolo stacks to Kaioshin.

Kaioshin should be weaker than Dabura and SSJ1 Teen Gohan. He clearly needs to be below Dabura.

So yeah Kamiccolo is maybe as strong as a Cell Junior in the Buu arc? He didnt make hardly any gains. As I said he was basically all maxed out after the RoSaT. It's too bad he was quite the beast in the Cell saga and very relevant.

Not really. If people think Pui Pui and Yakon were overestimated, what's contradicting Dabra being contradicted too?

He's still one shot fodder to SSJ Goku though.

 

[p123]

I think Piccolo ~ 50% Goku is the proper placement. The RoSaT brought the Super Namek to his absolute limits, much the same how Goku and Gohan reached their limits. Piccolo with Kami and Nail being about half as good as Goku seems about right to me. I have Supreme Kai at around 100% Goku. Which would explain why Piccolo mentions that he's on a different dimension.

 

[Void]

I think Piccolo ~ 50% Goku is the proper placement. The RoSaT brought the Super Namek to his absolute limits, much the same how Goku and Gohan reached their limits. Piccolo with Kami and Nail being about half as good as Goku seems about right to me. I have Supreme Kai at around 100% Goku. Which would explain why Piccolo mentions that he's on a different dimension.

Piccolo also stays useless against Cell at that level too. I don't get why people see it as so unreasonable.

 

[p123]

Exactly. Piccolo is a little stronger than the Buffed Up Cell and Buffed Up Trunks we saw at the end of the RoSaT saga. He is a level up on them, but still only half of Goku, who is a couple steps below Cell. Piccolo is in a perfect spot of supremely powerful, but unable to do anything. All he is able to do is avoid getting one shotted by the Cell Jrs and instead just takes a beating of a lifetime. Hardly impressive. Also, think about how strong Goku got in the RoSaT. Look at Gohan. Piccolo was stronger than Goku significantly previously and they both maxed out their abilities in the RoSaT. Piccolo being half of Goku while starting a good deal stronger is fair indeed.

 

[Tapion]

I still disagree with Kaioshin being above Piccolo, to be honest.

 

[p123]

I have no issues with Kaioshin being above Piccolo. Kaioshin at the Budokai seems supremely above Piccolo and the Kaioshin who fights Majin Buu also seems way above him. Badibi's ship is the real issue here imo. Also, if Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura, there's no issues with making Kaioshin way above Piccolo reasonably so.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It's blatantly stated that Kaioshin is above Piccolo.

It's also blatantly stated Piccolo is to the likes of expected Cell, who's a bit above 50% Goku.

 

[p123]

You're right. However, Piccolo questions if he is useless. That conversation is very deep.

2nd Expected Cell >> Initial Expected Cell >>= 50% Goku = Assumed Goku's FP

Piccolo's question to me is more about Piccolo saying that hey, Goku that wasn't your full power right? Piccolo should be able to be decent against Initial Expected Cell, not 2nd Expected Cell. Lol. This is some deep shit for a cartoon.

So Piccolo is saying hey, I should be useful against Cell now that I've powered up, but Cell and you are way stronger than the group thinks right Goku? And Goku is like duh. That wasn't FP. Yet we know that FP Goku is still way beyond expectations. So I'd say Expected Cell is probably around 75% of FP Goku making Piccolo 66% of Cell, making him useless.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Piccolo's only question in every translation (Be it Viz, Steve Simmons or Herms) is why Goku is bullshitting him. He outright says he knows he ain't shit and wants Goku to admit it.

I can't be bothered to post the scans right now, but i recommend you to look it up.

 

[p123]

Yes, it's a complicated topic. I think a lot more is going on in that conversation then what appears to be. This conversation reminds me of Goku and Piccolo talking on the Lookout about Super Saiyan 3 and his chances vs Buu.

So for me, I'd ask, why does Piccolo ask, why does he look sheepish at Goku's response and why is Trunks losing his mind over what Goku said?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't think there's much to see here. You're just staring to deep into it, like how VoR or Dioxide look too deep into Trunks' statement to Freeza.

Ofc he looks sheepish at Goku's response and ofc Trunks' surprised (Not losing his mind, otherwise we'd have seen a "!"). Goku just smiled as he admited Piccolo can't beat Cell. What's so funny about them all being powerless against Cell. The next pages Trunks even goes ask why Goku is so laid back, not something like if Cell is stronger than they think.

I think you oughta note that Trunks' reaction is directed at Goku's response, not Piccolo's as well. Had the intention been portraying Trunks' surprise at Piccolo's powerlessness, Mr Toriyama would've drawn Trunks' reaction a panel earlier.

 

[p123]

Why is Trunks surprised that Piccolo is useless against Cell?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He ain't.

 

[p123]

Then what is the expression on his face depicting if not shock or surprise?

 

[Victorious]

It's blatantly stated that Kaioshin is above Piccolo.

It's also blatantly stated Piccolo is to the likes of expected Cell, who's a bit above 50% Goku.

Except Trunks wouldn't start sweating bullets again, as Trunks already knew expected Cell > 50% Goku.

Now expected Cell is >>> 50% Goku. Which means Kamiccolo right there being close to 50% Goku makes perfect sense.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Then what is the expression on his face depicting if not shock or surprise?

I don't think you're getting the point. That :0 does indicate surprise, but it's not a shock/mindblow expression (As it lacks the "!!" that Mr Toriyama always puts).

Anyway, look at the page:

Spoiler

He's reacting to Goku's "Yeah", not to Piccolo's "I can't beat Cell.

This gets further emphasis when in the next chapter he goes after Goku and asks"Why you're so calm", instead of "Is Cell that strong?" Like he did when 50% Goku (Who was confirmed to be on Warm up Cell's level) said he couldn't beat Cell.

Except Trunks wouldn't start sweating bullets again, as Trunks already knew expected Cell > 50% Goku.

Now expected Cell is >>> 50% Goku. Which means Kamiccolo right there being close to 50% Goku makes sense.

He's not sweating bullets. He has one drop of sweat that Toriyama always draws on his characters.

See my response to P above to understand why they always estimated Cell to be only > 50% Goku until the Cell Games.

 

[p123]

They ask Goku why he's so calm because Goku has told them that he probably doesn't have a chance to win. That's why they ask him. Goku and Cell's relation have no changed from the conversation. What has changed in Goku and Cell's relation towards the Z Senshi.

 

[Victorious]

When Goku says "well duhh" Trunks looks both surprised and afraid.

So Expected Cell (well duh) >>> expected Cell initial > 50% Goku.

Kamiccolo would have to be a beast in order for that panel to make any sense. If Kamiccolo was say Super Vegeta level how would that panel make any sense? "Holy shit Cell can fodderize Super Vegeta..uhh didn't I just see that happen a few days ago? In really nervous"

Yeah that makes sense.