Dragon Ball Discussion

[Evil Vegeta]

I know what statement you were talking about. There's no difference unless you believe he stupidly tried to fight them again in-between that point and returning.

His statement simply makes no sense no matter how you look at it. If he was powerless as a Super Saiyan, it means he was a weakling compared to the Androids. That means whatever decent fight he put up couldn't have been much of anything.

 

[ahill1]

The "powerless" statement from Viz can still work alongside him stating he could fight them fairly well, I believe. They aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. You can be powerless against an opponent yet be able to put up a decent fight. For instance, Freeza was powerless against SSJ Goku, but he was still able to fight him fairly well. The "powerless" line only shows he was still outclassed in power, but it doesn't have to be by a huge difference.

The way it was said in the original brings heavier problems though. "Absolutely no match" sounds more like it wasn't a close/good fight at all, which also finds supportment from the multiple statements in which the absolutely no match is used denoting a big gap.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Trunks said the difference between the Androids and himself was huge right after fighting them. I think that's enough to conclude he was much weaker than them.

Also, Freeza plowed through a KMHMH that Goku was apparently using to finish him. I wouldn't call Freeza powerless prior to his stamina burning out. A better example would probably be Vegeta Vs #18. He was able to hang with her for awhile, but ultimately proved to be powerless since she was ignoring his attacks and his own stamina was going down.

Whatever fight Trunks believed he put up couldn't have meant much.

 

[Papasmurf]

You believe #18 was holding back against Vegeta though right?

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Pretty much. I believe #18 even says Vegeta was powerless against her. I'm just mainly referring to how he made the fight appear more competitive than it actually was. Trunks seemed to think he was fighting equally with #18, while Piccolo highlighted the stamina depletion as if that was Vegeta's main weakness. You could probably excuse those since the Androids can't be sensed.

If I'm being honest, even with Trunks' quote, I doubt he had a showing nearly as good as that against the Future Androids.

 

[supercat]

I doubt Trunks had any real chance against the androids of his timeline. Android 17 seemed to enjoy playing with his opponent moreso than just flat-out destroying them from the get-go; it's quite possible that these playful tendencies are what enabled Trunks to briefly hold his own time to time.

On the low end, I have each future android doubling Trunks (vs Frieza and King Cold) in strength while the present ones are at least 2.5 - 3x stronger.

I wonder how he would react once he realizes that present Android 17 is now SSB-tier?

 

[ahill1]

Trunks said the difference between the Androids and himself was huge right after fighting them. I think that's enough to conclude he was much weaker than them.

Also, Freeza plowed through a KMHMH that Goku was apparently using to finish him. I wouldn't call Freeza powerless prior to his stamina burning out. A better example would probably be Vegeta Vs #18. He was able to hang with her for awhile, but ultimately proved to be powerless since she was ignoring his attacks and his own stamina was going down.

Whatever fight Trunks believed he put up couldn't have meant much.

I am aware, I was talking specifically about the line GreatSaiyaman posted, in which according to VIZ it's stated he was powerless against him.

Moreover, the difference could lie on that being [Mecha saga] Trunks, and the Trunks who has made the later statement being the one from the androids saga. As many could argue, Trunks could have gotten strong enough to now be able to fight them decently well, whereas himself from 3 years ago just paled in comparison to them. Something like "Future androids > Trunks (androids saga) >> Trunks (Mecha saga)".

I am aware that the line is a little different on the original though.

As for the Freeza's example, well, if Freeza was weaker than Goku, then I'd call him powerless. That's what I define as powerless, lacking in power to fight on par with the opponent, be it by a stomp or by a close fight. Maybe the 22nd Budokai in which Goku and Tenshinhan fought is also a good example. Tenshinhan was powerless against Goku, yet he was able to give the boy a good battle.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

In that case, the reader is left to decide which makes the most sense to them. Trunks is absolutely no match as a Super Saiyan, but they weren't so far above him that he couldn't fight them decently. That's what he says in the midst of a few chapters.

The way I see it, the story makes it clear that Trunks isn't in the Future Androids' league. He needed to become strong enough to take them down, hope Goku could expose a weakness, or bring Goku to the future to fight the Androids. The Present Androids just make them not seem as terribly powerful in comparison. All in all, Trunks would get washed by both, but much quicker by the Present Androids.

 

[ahill1]

In that case, the reader is left to decide which makes the most sense to them. Trunks is absolutely no match as a Super Saiyan, but they weren't so far above him that he couldn't fight them decently. That's what he says in the midst of a few chapters.

The way I see it, the story makes it clear that Trunks isn't in the Future Androids' league. He needed to become strong enough to take them down, hope Goku could expose a weakness, or bring Goku to the future to fight the Androids. The Present Androids just make them not seem as terribly powerful in comparison. All in all, Trunks would get washed by both, but much quicker by the Present Androids.

That's true. However, if you go with the "Trunks (androids saga) >> Piccolo (androids saga) >> Trunks (mecha freeza saga)" chain, Trunks has to be at least approaching the future androids level, considering Gohan, to whom he had already an advantage in raw power 3 years before, was already about on par with half of future #17 at least, don't you agree?

Trunks (3 years later) >> Piccolo >> Trunks > Gohan > less than half #17.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I think most of us just choose to disregard Super logic with how contradictory the show is and how many stupid things Toriyama says nowadays (e.g. Raditz being an elite warrior).

That, and it's questionable if Beerus was really talking about Goku's current strength given in the anime he saw Goku fighting Freeza with golden hair and had Whis tell him that such was a Super Saiyan. Not to mention the manga making the one Freeza > Base Saiyans implication even more worthless by having Beerus only bring up Goku surpassing Freeza after he goes SS2.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

When you put it that way, Trunks shouldn't be far from them. Just comfortably weaker to the point where he can't take either Android. Both seem like they'd be overkill if they weren't holding-back.

 

[ahill1]

Is this a feat beyond the One Piece's world ability?

 

[ahill1]

I'd like to see more people participating in this discussion:
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2282800-how-big-was-gap-between-trunks-namek-goku/9.htm

Let's all prove Trunks is significantly stronger than Freeza, but still rather outclassed by the androids!

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'd like to see more people participating in this discussion:
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2282800-how-big-was-gap-between-trunks-namek-goku/9.htm

Let's all prove Trunks is significantly stronger than Freeza, but still rather outclassed by the androids!

You're not even posting there bro.

 

[ahill1]

I don't have much to add, tbh.

 

[ahill1]

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2282800-how-big-was-gap-between-trunks-namek-goku/9.htm

Awaiting EV's reply. I want to see a BIG DEBATE!!

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

What about my reply, Ahill?

 

[ahill1]

What about my reply, Ahill?

It was a nice reply

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

You should post on that thread, Ahill. I think you really could add something interesting to the table. Lightsworn and Amirong did join the debate too, after all.

 

[ahill1]

I will see.