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This is such an odd debate.
It's pretty cool.
It's pretty cool.
Dragon Ball Discussion
- Thread starter SSJ2
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Yeah, i never thought someone would think Goku didn't power up on Yardrat.
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The thing about VOR is he tends to hand-wave certain things.
According to him, Goku and Freeza are identical in power. This makes no sense if Freeza isn't sure a gigantic boost in power would allow him to take on Goku alone. I got some stuff ready for him, so we'll see.
According to him, Goku and Freeza are identical in power. This makes no sense if Freeza isn't sure a gigantic boost in power would allow him to take on Goku alone. I got some stuff ready for him, so we'll see.
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It's kind of odd because Cyborgs > Trunks > Freeza is what should come naturally when you are going through this page. Goku states that for the man who took down Freeza to call them scary is really scary, which should settle the aforementioned rank as something solid. Granted that Freeza wasn't at full power, but would Trunks be idiot enough to challenge Freeza to go full power if he didn't even had a grasp over 100% Freeza? We knew how he was against the idea of allowing Cell to become perfect because, even though he was still stronger than Semi Cell, Perfect Cell was still an unknown to him. The fact that he is willing to let Freeza power up to 100% is evidence that somehow he has a grasp over Freeza's real abilities. Otherwise he wouldn't be comfortable enough in taking down a hypothetical 100% Freeza.
Even Goku, who knew how strong Namek Freeza was still thought it was better not to teleport there when he felt Trunks' amazing chi, which would mean Goku has at least felt confident enough that Trunks had plenty of strength to deal with Freeza without his presence being needed. The sword isn't a thing either as that was immediately dismissed as soon as Trunks easily stopped Cold's attack with his bare hands, with Trunks even calling that another miscalculation. How could anyone contructe that to mean the sword is needed to bring Freeza down? Isn't that completely going against the point of that scene?
Every character that mentions Freeza being defeated by Trunks doesn't bring up Freeza's suppressed state as a factor. Trunks doesn't seem to care about it, AT makes no effort in showing us the battle would be different were Freeza to take his time and power up... there's no merit to this idea, specially when the Daizenshuu highlights Freeza's power up and subsequently dismisses it by stating he is no match against Trunks. "Freeza has power up, but he is still no match against Trunks", that is, even though he has gotten stronger, that still is not enough to stop Trunks... pretty clear cut statement if you ask me, with the but serving as an indication that Freeza's power up apparently shouldn't matter.
And yet Trunks outted more than one time how strong the androids are and how he couldn't match up to them. Even Gohan, who wasn't that stronger than 50% #17, isn't much below mecha saga Trunks, which indicates, at least in the Mecha saga, that Trunks isn't much to the androids, and Freeza even less so.
Even Goku, who knew how strong Namek Freeza was still thought it was better not to teleport there when he felt Trunks' amazing chi, which would mean Goku has at least felt confident enough that Trunks had plenty of strength to deal with Freeza without his presence being needed. The sword isn't a thing either as that was immediately dismissed as soon as Trunks easily stopped Cold's attack with his bare hands, with Trunks even calling that another miscalculation. How could anyone contructe that to mean the sword is needed to bring Freeza down? Isn't that completely going against the point of that scene?
Every character that mentions Freeza being defeated by Trunks doesn't bring up Freeza's suppressed state as a factor. Trunks doesn't seem to care about it, AT makes no effort in showing us the battle would be different were Freeza to take his time and power up... there's no merit to this idea, specially when the Daizenshuu highlights Freeza's power up and subsequently dismisses it by stating he is no match against Trunks. "Freeza has power up, but he is still no match against Trunks", that is, even though he has gotten stronger, that still is not enough to stop Trunks... pretty clear cut statement if you ask me, with the but serving as an indication that Freeza's power up apparently shouldn't matter.
And yet Trunks outted more than one time how strong the androids are and how he couldn't match up to them. Even Gohan, who wasn't that stronger than 50% #17, isn't much below mecha saga Trunks, which indicates, at least in the Mecha saga, that Trunks isn't much to the androids, and Freeza even less so.
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Evil Vegeta said:
I think the biggest issue with VoR's point of view is that he bases everything on what he thinks it's logical, even though the series run on the opposite direction several times.
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Pretty much. It's getting to the point where Trunks can't be trusted because he's emotional.
Oh, something I came across: Freeza yells "Shenlong" when he's rushing to Porunga to make his wish. Any idea how he came across that name?
Oh, something I came across: Freeza yells "Shenlong" when he's rushing to Porunga to make his wish. Any idea how he came across that name?
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That explains it.
He just yells out "Make me, Freeza, unendingly young" in the Anime
He just yells out "Make me, Freeza, unendingly young" in the Anime
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p123 said:
Between Cell and the blast? About the same as Semi Cell on 16 IMO. Although Cell was moved quite a bit, you have to factor that Ki blasts have some great pushing strength. Like when Goku used the Kamehameha to push himself into the air several times before Z.
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Looks like a kiai.
Guys, check out my latest post to VOR and tell me what you think.
Guys, check out my latest post to VOR and tell me what you think.
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Evil Vegeta said:
I quite like the connection you made to Piccolo saying that and Nail look the same, disproving his BS about Goku and Trunks having the same ki. Still reading your counter..
Man, VOR is a fucking ass-wipe lmao
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The lines surrounding his hand would suggest to me he delivered an incredibly fast strike to stab through Raditz, with the motion not being present just to highlight how fast it was.SSJ2 said:
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That could still happen from a physical strike pretty easily though. Then again, it's true that there'd be no need for Piccolo's arm to be in the same position in all the panels if he indeed moved it. Perhaps a kiai is the best bet.
The cracks could simply be due to the art inconsistency of this chapter though, considering the ground beneath Raditz seems to change with each page. One page will have the area be entirely grassy, whilst the next would display his body being an the dry ground.
The cracks could simply be due to the art inconsistency of this chapter though, considering the ground beneath Raditz seems to change with each page. One page will have the area be entirely grassy, whilst the next would display his body being an the dry ground.
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SSJ2 said:
Thanks. Since that was the closest example I could think of, I decided to check the Japanese panel to see if there was a connection. I'm glad that I did.
I'm sure it won't change his mind, but at least an example like that exists.
In Budokai Tenkaichi 1, Piccolo bitchslaps Raditz when he's on the ground, lol.
3000 posts! Hype.
