GreatSaiyaman123’s 2023 Power Level List

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why do you have Old Gas > Granolah (Final Attack)?

Granolah said he held back a bit because he didn't want to kill Gas.

But come to think of it, the attack should still be stronger than Gas to damage him like it did. I'll change it to 135,000,000,000,000.

 

[SIAD]

Granolah said he held back a bit because he didn't want to kill Gas.

But come to think of it, the attack should still be stronger than Gas to damage him like it did. I'll change it to 135,000,000,000,000.

And do you think that the Shot at 100% would be 150,000,000,000,000,000?

Black Freeza killing Buff Zombie Gas, looks a lot like Gohan SSJ2 hitting Super Bojack, but surely the difference between Freeza over Gas is even greater, considering that Freeza was only in his Black state at the time he pierced Gas, then return to his Fourth Form. I also think that Black Frieza should be superior to a Hypothetical Vegetto SSJBE (Chapter 87).

As for Frieza Fourth Form, I would imagine that the gap between Black forms over Golden, must be similar to the gap between Golden over Fourth Form. At least I think the Black Form is many times more powerful than the Golden Form, since apparently Frieza can't stay too long in the Black Form (similar to what happened to him with his Golden Form in FNF), for as long as that her Golden Form had completely dominated her, since before her 10 years of training.

 

[Yoshi]

Interesting how you have small gaps between Piccolo, #16, and Vegeta VS Cell in their second rounds. You don't think that the feats are inconsistent enough with the rest of the story to where there shouldn't be large gaps?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Interesting how you have small gaps between Piccolo, #16, and Vegeta VS Cell in their second rounds. You don't think that the feats are inconsistent enough with the rest of the story to where there shouldn't be large gaps?

I gave this a lot of thought when I first swapped to Freeza > Base Saiyans.

The numbers we see on Namek actually suggest only small gaps are needed for domination. Recoome tanks Vegeta’s strongest blast without even trying, and only loses his armor. If he can do that while toying, he might have been capable of a full tank while serious.

 

[Yoshi]

I gave this a lot of thought when I first swapped to Freeza > Base Saiyans.

The numbers we see on Namek actually suggest only small gaps are needed for domination. Recoome tanks Vegeta’s strongest blast without even trying, and only loses his armor. If he can do that while toying, he might have been capable of a full tank while serious.

I can see how tanking Ki Blasts could be too inconsistent for large gaps, and nothing else in the Imperfect Cell VS Piccolo fight seems to suggest a x1.5 gap or more, but I believe that Semi Perfect Cell and Perfect Cell most likely have at least a x1.5 gap over #16 and Vegeta, considering they out speeded them with ease or they couldn't detect their movements.

 

[Goku9001]

I think the gap between Mecha Frieza and SSJ Trunks is far too small. Trunks should be capable of defeating Frieza with or without the blade in a single blow. A 1.2x gap isn't enough to accomplish this. On top of that, it was made clear that the force Trunks used on Frieza wasn't even his full power. You should take that into consideration.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I can see how tanking Ki Blasts could be too inconsistent for large gaps, and nothing else in the Imperfect Cell VS Piccolo fight seems to suggest a x1.5 gap or more, but I believe that Semi Perfect Cell and Perfect Cell most likely have at least a x1.5 gap over #16 and Vegeta, considering they out speeded them with ease or they couldn't detect their movements.

1.5x would've been neat. That's what I had when I first made this list, but then I had to tighten everything to make Goku below 120,000,000.

Even without that, I don't think 2x gaps are needed anymore. Too much wasted space.

I think the gap between Mecha Frieza and SSJ Trunks is far too small. Trunks should be capable of defeating Frieza with or without the blade in a single blow. A 1.2x gap isn't enough to accomplish this. On top of that, it was made clear that the force Trunks used on Frieza wasn't even his full power. You should take that into consideration.

Zarbon gets rid of Vegeta with just a couple blows with a 1.2x gap. Trunks can beat Freeza easily sure, he literally does just that, but if he can do it in one blow why did he ambush Freeza with that blast instead of going straight to him?

 

[SIAD]

I have Future Trunks SSJ = 1.3333333x Mecha Freezer.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'm thinking...

Black Freeza >>> Gohan Beast > TUI Goku = UE Vegeta > Cell MAX > Orange Piccolo ~ Silver UI Goku >>> Ultimate Gohan (Current) = Ultimate Gohan (Moro Saga) >= Gamma 1 = Gamma 2 >= Ultimate Piccolo > Android 17

@SIAD what do you think? Piccolo hasn't seen Goku and Vegeta since the battle with Moro, so he's comparing Cell MAX and the Gammas to Goku and Vegeta from that saga. He doesn't know about True UI or Ultra Ego.

In Chapter 91, Piccolo also says Gohan hasn't been training. So he's going to be the same strength when he fights Gamma 1.

Gas is up there with Gohan Beast and Granolah is probably on Cell's level, but I'm not sure where exactly.

 

[SIAD]

@GreatSaiyaman123

Looks great. I have a hard time with having the Gammas rival Goku and Vegeta PSSJB (Arc Moro), because Vegeta (Post Yadart) goes straight SSJBE against Moro, while Goku initially uses PSSJB.

I also have Vegeta (Post Yadart) >>>>> Goku (Post Merus) in the same forms.

At least in the Movie I see it that way, Piccolo was comparing the Gammas with Goku and Vegeta SSJB from the DBS Broly Movie. After Beast Gohan finished off Cell Max, Gohan declares that without the help of Gamma 2, neither with the help of Goku, nor Vegeta would have been able to defeat Cell Max.

All this makes me think that Vegeta SSJB, Goku SSJB and Orange Piccolo were not too far behind Jiren and apparently Gohan was aware of how powerful Vegeta and Goku were in DBS Hero.

I really want to meet DBS Hero adapted to Manga. I really like your suspicions, I think it will be essential to see if Goku and Vegeta will talk about Jiren and Broly again. I also just hope Gohan keeps being in his Ultimate form all the time and doesn't return the SSJ forms as it would cause a lot of confusion, unless it's about his Ultimate state like in DBGT.

 

[Goku9001]

1.5x would've been neat. That's what I had when I first made this list, but then I had to tighten everything to make Goku below 120,000,000.

Even without that, I don't think 2x gaps are needed anymore. Too much wasted space.



Zarbon gets rid of Vegeta with just a couple blows with a 1.2x gap. Trunks can beat Freeza easily sure, he literally does just that, but if he can do it in one blow why did he ambush Freeza with that blast instead of going straight to him?

That is wrong. Monster Zarbon exchanged multiple blows with Vegeta and many of these explicitly struck him in the face. And yet, Monster Zarbon needed to seismic toss him into the ground from a significant distance to finish him off. That attack still didn't kill Vegeta.

Trunks only used a diversion to end the fight quicker just as Monster Zarbon did against Vegeta. But that's irrelevant. In the face of raw power, Trunks could eliminate Frieza in a single blow and we are led to believe that the sword didn't make a difference. You would also need to factor in that Trunks didn't target Frieza with his full power.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That is wrong. Monster Zarbon exchanged multiple blows with Vegeta and many of these explicitly struck him in the face. And yet, Monster Zarbon needed to seismic toss him into the ground from a significant distance to finish him off. That attack still didn't kill Vegeta.

Trunks only used a diversion to end the fight quicker just as Monster Zarbon did against Vegeta. But that's irrelevant. In the face of raw power, Trunks could eliminate Frieza in a single blow and we are led to believe that the sword didn't make a difference. You would also need to factor in that Trunks didn't target Frieza with his full power.

If Trunks uses diversions in order to finish Freeza quickly, then the story is not portraying Trunks so far above Freeza as to casually walk up to him and rip him in half with his bare hands.

Trunks is not the type to hold back in a serious fight. For all intents and purposes, that was his full power. He only didn’t use his full power sparring against Goku. Separating him from the sword is pointless, because he’s still using it and it gives him an advantage regardless of whether he needs it or not.

Trunks says he’ll deal with Freeza and Cold quickly, which is just what Zarbon does to Vegeta. With just a couple blows Vegeta was already fucked up, and I’d say tossing someone away isn’t as powerful as a direct hit.

Vegeta was also able to handle Dodoria (22k) quite easily. Granted Dodoria had lost Yuuki, but this is a much closer gap.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@GreatSaiyaman123

Looks great. I have a hard time with having the Gammas rival Goku and Vegeta PSSJB (Arc Moro), because Vegeta (Post Yadart) goes straight SSJBE against Moro, while Goku initially uses PSSJB.

I also have Vegeta (Post Yadart) >>>>> Goku (Post Merus) in the same forms.

At least in the Movie I see it that way, Piccolo was comparing the Gammas with Goku and Vegeta SSJB from the DBS Broly Movie. After Beast Gohan finished off Cell Max, Gohan declares that without the help of Gamma 2, neither with the help of Goku, nor Vegeta would have been able to defeat Cell Max.

All this makes me think that Vegeta SSJB, Goku SSJB and Orange Piccolo were not too far behind Jiren and apparently Gohan was aware of how powerful Vegeta and Goku were in DBS Hero.

I really want to meet DBS Hero adapted to Manga. I really like your suspicions, I think it will be essential to see if Goku and Vegeta will talk about Jiren and Broly again. I also just hope Gohan keeps being in his Ultimate form all the time and doesn't return the SSJ forms as it would cause a lot of confusion, unless it's about his Ultimate state like in DBGT.

I have Vegeta (Post Yardrat) = Goku (Post Merus) because the movie has Base Goku = Base Vegeta, but I can see Vegeta > Goku in the Moro Saga and Goku catching up later.

I agree with what you think about the movie. But it’s weird to think that Jiren might be far weaker than Broly…

I think the movie confirms Ultimate > SSJ > Base for Toriyama, so the manga shall be the same.

 

[SIAD]

Hachimaru is missing.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Hachimaru is missing.

Not anymore.

 

[SIAD]

Future Gohan SSJ (Two arms) AND Present Zamasu (Suppresed vs Kibito) is missing.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Future Gohan SSJ (Two arms) AND Present Zamasu (Suppresed vs Kibito) is missing.

Didn’t include Future Gohan because he could be anything. We don’t know how weak he was compared to Future 17 and he doesn’t appear in the manga. Maybe 135,000,000?

Present Zamasu is already irrelevant, and a level he just uses to stomp Kibito is even more irrelevant.

 

[Yoshi]

Why do you believe Piccolo > Base Saiyans now?

 

[SIAD]

@GreatSaiyaman123

Why do you no longer believe that Goku used UI Sing (Beyond Limits)?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@GreatSaiyaman123

Why do you no longer believe that Goku used UI Sing (Beyond Limits)?

Goku was already weakened, and buffing up didn’t bring him back to full power. You can see that when Moro easily beats him.

UI Sign Goku: 12
~ Tired: 8
~ Buffed up: 10