GreatSaiyaman123 said:
How he thinks Vegeta fighting Gohan and Goku alone can be a good thing? He's the only one who hasn't shown hability to transform, and it's pretty risky to put him against 2 of his friends if he's not sure he can handle them. The kili is at odd's here, but i put it on the same place as Babidi thinking Pocus would wipe out the saiyans.
Thing is, it can't be anything more than a complete guess on Dabra's part. The most you could do is assume that Dabra was expecting Vegeta to be able to transform, and that Bobbidi's mind control powers would make Vegeta far stronger than he is. And that's assuming he didn't think of it as anything more than friends fighting each other and giving them free energy like their conversation seemed to imply.
Dabra was shocked to see Goku transform. For any of this to be viable, Dabra would've had to have assumed Vegeta could transform. Let's just go along with the fact that Dabra assumed a possessed Vegeta was their best chance at reviving Boo. If Dabra assumed a transformed Vegeta possessed by Bobbidi would've been "perfect" enough, he'd be wrong anyway because Super Saiyan 2 Goku would've stomped his ass with no effort.
Everything feel into place because Vegeta was a Super Saiyan 2. Dabra's estimations fall apart otherwise.
Don't see why Goku would note if Vegeta was weaker than Gohan. If Vegeta was weaker than Dabura Goku would tell because Vegeta would go there and die, so Goku thinking Vegeta was talking out of hiss ass about Gohan is credible. Goku can't expect Vegeta to have SSJ2, considering he felt he needs SSJ2 to defeat Vegeta and was surprised when Vegeta transformed.
Thing is, Goku never even says anything about Vegeta being able to beat Dabra or not. All he says is to let Gohan continue fighting when Vegeta says he'll finish the fight. That same logic (Goku choosing not to comment on the topic) could literally be used in every example. Goku urged Vegeta to chill because Gohan wasn't completely losing. What exactly does this prove? Goku not going back and forth with Vegeta is sensible.
And honestly, if Vegeta was about to die, nothing would stop Goku from intervening, so I definitely don't agree there.
As for Goku's shock, that could've been because he wasn't expecting Vegeta to be exactly as strong as himself.
He saw Base Vegeta in action. Why he couldn't be able to tell how strong SSJ Vegeta is based on his base power?
Goku's not a walking calculator, though. He watched Gohan transform at the Budokai, yet still questioned if he was training before the fight with Dabra. That means the idea of him slacking hadn't become obvious to him yet. If Goku (unlike Vegeta) wasn't able to see how much weaker Gohan had gotten despite seeing him transform into his strongest form, I don't see how Goku is able to deduce how strong Super Saiyan Vegeta was after watching Base Vegeta (that may or may not be holding-back) easily decimate Pui-Pui.
The Kid Buu fight is another context, though. Vegeta has to fight Kid Buu because Goku needs time. Dabura is just Vegeta getting pissed and wanting to step in, he'd only be stupid and die for nothing on this scenario if Dabura was too much for him.
I'm referring to the Rock/Paper/Scissors portion of the story. Goku fought Kid Boo first because he won the game. If Vegeta won, surely he would've been the one fighting Kid Boo. Vegeta told Goku that he didn't need to protect his feelings because it was obvious he was inferior to Kid Boo; something Goku was verbally denying. Goku never spoke on Vegeta's chances in either situation. Why? Because there's really no need to. Keep in mind that Vegeta risked being erased from existence, so the situation was much more dire than the Dabra one.
When Goku asked Vegeta if he could fight first during the Cell Games, Vegeta gave him the go ahead before stating that it didn't matter because he was going to be the one that would finish off Cell in the end. Goku doesn't challenge his opinion there because he doesn't care. Vegeta's opinion is honestly shown to be quite irrelevant to Goku at times, so I don't see why that needs to differ here.
He's refering to his SSJ2 here IMO. It took Gohan a lot of time to transform at the Budokai.
It did?
Super Saiyan 3 Goku took a lot of time to transform. This, however, seems to be relatively quickly.
Gohan doesn't have the time to power up as Babidi and Buu wouldn't stay there and wait for him to power up. Same reason he never went SSJ2 against Dabura IMO.
Dabra gave everyone the opportunity to fight him all at once so he could prove his dominance. Knowing this, chances are Dabra wouldn't have prevented him from reaching his highest power. When Gohan is about to fight Dabra for round 2, Dabra sits there smirking as Gohan transforms while talking to himself. He definitely had no qualms waiting for Gohan to power-up there.
As for Boo, Gohan thought he was stupid and childish. We also see from above that the transformation does not take that long, so.
Still doesn't convice me. Don't see why they can't harm each other easily if they are SSJ2s.
That's not a Super Saiyan 2 thing. That's a "Dabra sucks at inflicting damage" thing, like Bobbidi said. Goku says Gohan used up a bunch of stamina in the fight, which is much different than him taking a noticeable amount of damage. All this proves is Dabra failed to damage Gohan. It doesn't speak on what tier they're fighting in.
If we look at both battles comparatively, Dabra is having trouble with Gohan once the scene cuts to the battle. Gohan looked like the better one up close, but Dabra had magic to make the battle tougher. Dabra only landed a fireball that destroyed Gohan's uniform. His fire breath was dodged, his stone spit did nothing, and his sword got broken by Gohan. That's basically all we see.
Goku and Vegeta were just pummeling each other from beginning to end. There was no dodging and illusion tricks like the other fight. Combine that with the fact that they're way above those 2 and it makes sense.
All of Gohan's energy sucked from him took the meter close to half:
So half of Gohan's energy absorbed would've been roughly close to 25%.
That's just straight energy. Damage energy is a bit different because it requires them to constantly take damage for it to go to Boo.
Gohan took enough damage for it to go slightly above 50%.
Dabra most likely didn't have any attacks that were potent enough to do great damage. If Gohan and Dabra are both clashing at comparable levels, yet are unable to do any real damage to one another, this just means both are weak relative to Goku and Vegeta. I don't believe it's enough to establish what tier they're in. I mean, Goku's burst of Super Saiyan 2 was already above Gohan, so we know his full-power would only make it look even more minuscule. Incredible powers like that clashing would bring about great damage energy.
Gohan and Dabra? Not so much.
Maybe killing him would be the same as max damage?
Maybe for the sword slice. I doubt turning Gohan into stone would've did anything. They're basically dead as long as Dabra's alive in that situation, but alive because that could change. I dunno.
Ahill sugested something like that once.
