Kid Buu vs Super Buu

[kriss-]

Shit, I forgot about something:

a) The Frieza > Goku Base

Line occurs in Battle of Gods & Dragonball Super.

It's obviously Goku didn't increase much after the Buu Saga.

 

[Dragon15]

Shit, I forgot about something:

a) The Frieza > Goku Base

Line occurs in Battle of Gods & Dragonball Super.

It's obviously Goku didn't increase much after the Buu Saga.

So like you said right there, Goku did increase, just not by much.

 

[kriss-]

Like 10%? Lol, that's hardly even an increase.

 

[Dragon15]

Like 10%? Lol, that's hardly even an increase.

He can still increase. And for not even 5 years of training, It's not that bad.

Goku was 3m on namek and freeza 120m.
Goku buu saga could be 80m and 90m in super.

And even after Beerus's fight, vegeta managed to become even stronger in the last episode. So even in super They are not AT their limits.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Lol the argument "they are in their limits" is completely illogical. Goku already said he hit his limits before CG, yet he surpassed Kid Gohan in the same form after he trained in the after life.

 

[kriss-]

It's impossible to have them above Frieza in 'Base' form regardless.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

What makes so "impossible"?

 

[kriss-]

Two statements in Battle of Gods & Dragonball Super saying Goku is below Frieza in his Base form.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I thought nobody take that seriously. And power scaling won't work.

 

[kriss-]

I don't understand why we wouldn't take it seriously.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Power scaling just won't work. Unless you think that their SSJ multiplier increased greatly.

 

[Ryuzaki]

It's impossible to have them above Frieza in 'Base' form regardless.

Hum...good argument. Well, now, I have no trouble with AT putting Goku above everyone, as he indirectly admitted that he can freely mess with what was established earlier in the manga. At least, it helped me to solve the Kid Boo VS Super Boo debate in my mind :

SSJ3-tier chain and above

SSJ Vegetto > Boohan > Bootenks > Buff Boo > Kid Boo ~ SSJ3 Goku > Mystic Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > Super Boo > Fat Boo

 

[ahill1]

Yea Goku could not increase more than 10% his powers IMO...

Goku (buu saga) 90,000,000
Goku (vs beerus) 100,000,000

 

[Dragon15]

But even if base Goku is weaker than freeza now, it doesn't mean he couldn't surpass him in the futur.

 

[Ryuzaki]

But even if base Goku is weaker than freeza now, it doesn't mean he couldn't surpass him in the futur.

Well, now that he kept the power from the ritual, he certainly is now. Just look at their battle in RoF.

 

[Dragon15]

But even if base Goku is weaker than freeza now, it doesn't mean he couldn't surpass him in the futur.

Well, now that he kept the power from the ritual, he certainly is now. Just look at their battle in RoF.

I mean, if he had kept training without getting the ssjg, he could have surpassed freeza namek's level.

 

[kriss-]

I doubt it.

There's a reason Toriyama made the series/movies happen around that time period. Because Goku was at his best and may have possibly gotten weaker due to age.

I think it's just you trying to find a way to dance around the notion 'Frieza > Goku Base', regardless of Toriyama's intentions or current statements.

 

[Dragon15]

I doubt it.

There's a reason Toriyama made the series/movies happen around that time period. Because Goku was at his best and may have possibly gotten weaker due to age.

I think it's just you trying to find a way to dance around the notion 'Frieza > Goku Base', regardless of Toriyama's intentions or current statements.

So buu saga was not his best, and Goku is much younger than vegeta so nope.
Vegeta became even stronger by himself in the last episode without ssjg and he is older than Goku. So age means nothing. Even if it is slower than before, them can still become stronger for the Time being.

 

[kriss-]

Toriyama stated they reached a peak where they couldn't get any stronger.

So no, it's impossible for Goku to surpass Frieza in Base.

 

[Dragon15]

Toriyama stated they reached a peak where they couldn't get any stronger.

So no, it's impossible for Goku to surpass Frieza in Base.

Vegeta became stronger in the last episode, fact.
So They can become stronger.