Misc.

[p123]

Yea I'm going with Gohan being a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura nowadays. I'm being more anime influenced here.

 

[ahill1]

Where do you have Kaioshin? Weaker than Piccolo?

 

[ahill1]

P, now you have Piccolo being only 76% of a Cell Jr? I think this is too much of a gap... in my list I have Piccolo being 87% of a Cell Jr. Compare Piccolo (post fight) to Zarbon handsome (post Vegeta fight). They look exactly equals. I tend to think that the gap between Piccolo and Cell Jr is the same as Zarbon handsome and Vegeta, that is, 87~88%.

 

[p123]

Yea I'm still playing around with it. I might make him 85%.

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta SS2 should be at 4,600 as you have a 4x multiplier for Super Saiyan2

I think the gap between Vegeta [pre majin] and Gohan[boo saga] is too big; and Gohan [boo saga] is half of Goku [boo saga]? Seems a bit too much since Goku ponder the possibility of doing a fuse dance with Gohan.

 

[p123]

I wouldn't worry about my numbers too much for now man. I'm still working on it. But good point man, I'll tighten up Gohan a little closer to Vegeta. You are right, it doesn't have to be that massive of a gap.

 

[ahill1]

Sorry.

You had:

Gohan hypothetical Enranged ( Boo Saga ) 400
Majin Vegeta SS2 375
Goku SS2 375
Gohan Enranged ( Cell Game ) 337.5
SPC 320
Vegeta SS2 ( Pre Majin ) 300
Gohan SS2 ( Boo Saga ) 225
Dabra 225
Perfect Cell ( Full Power ) 200
Goku SS ( Boo Saga ) 150
Majin Vegeta SS 150
Vegeta SS ( Pre Majin ) 120
Gohan SS ( Cell Game ) 105
Perfect Cell ( Real Speed ) 100
Gohan SS ( Boo Saga ) 90
Perfect Cell ( Vs Goku ) 85
Goku SS ( Cell Game ) 75


This seems perfect... it's too good to not use IMO.

Gohan SS

 

[ahill1]

Now do you have Goku ( cell games ) at 66% of Gohan ( cell game ) ?

East Kaioshin is stronger than Goku SSJ ( cell games ) ??? Wooooow.

 

[ahill1]

Elder Kaioshin stated that Gokhan ( Potara ) could defeat Bootenks in base.

 

[p123]

Oh crap that's a good point. Damn.

 

[SSJ2]

Yea I'm going with Gohan being a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura nowadays. I'm being more anime influenced here.

Why's that? That fight is non canon in the anime. They butchered it.

 

[p123]

I think it makes sense. There is a ton of evidence suggesting it is possible, you need to make similar accommodations to make either theory work and Gohan should be a SSJ2. It has a lot to do with going by the rage boost as well.

Yea I keep getting stuck with Goku at 66% of Gohan at the CG, nothing more I can really do and it should be fine.

And yes, with this new logic that Gohan was a SSJ2 against Dabura, Buu Ball and picking up the sword, it allows for the Kaioshin's to fill in that gap now.

Kaioshins being strong isn't a bad thing, it's just something I couldn't use before because Gohan was a Super Saiyan in my mind. As a Super Saiyan 2 now, it opens up a lot of new options for me.

 

[SSJ2]

What would make Kaioshin strong? The way the story is written makes it pretty clear that AT wanted him to be weak. There's no reason for him to be above Pocus, let alone the base Saiyans.

 

[ahill1]

Kaioshin could be way stronger than Piccolo and yet be weaker than Goku SSJ ( cell games).

 

[Lightsworn]

What would make Kaioshin strong? The way the story is written makes it pretty clear that AT wanted him to be weak. There's no reason for him to be above Pocus, let alone the base Saiyans.

There is an uncontradicted statement that Kaioshin is far above Piccolo who is far stronger than base Saiyans. He also showed good resilience against Boo.

 

[p123]

Yea I would probably have it as something like this...


1) Kaioshin the Pussy

Doesn't think he can take out Badibi's men who should all be weaker than Yakkon and especially Dabura considering his extreme surprise at seeing the both of them. Considers Badibi a real threat.

2) Kaioshin the God

Being able to paralyze Super Saiyan 2 Gohan as well as the attacks he used on Fat Buu seem to be pretty fucking strong. What he did to Buu was ultra impressive I felt.


Perhaps Kaioshin's power works in a weird way. His ki itself isn't impressive but his psychic attacks are ultra impressive. Maybe he's sort of similar to how Guldo works.




@ Lightsworn


Piccolo cannot sense Godly Ki as far as I know. I have Kaioshin > Piccolo based on feats, not that statement.

 

[ahill1]

What would make Kaioshin strong? The way the story is written makes it pretty clear that AT wanted him to be weak. There's no reason for him to be above Pocus, let alone the base Saiyans.

Agreed with this... in Bobbidi's spaceship Kaioshin is potrayed as weaker than the base saiyans. I have a hard time to believe Kaioshin is way stronger than base Vegeta. This is the problem with Kaioshin being stronger than Piccolo since the latter should dwarf the Saiyans base based on his performance against the Cell Jr. . It's weird, East Kaioshin is one of the worst character in the series and his strength is something subjective.

 

[SSJ2]

What would make Kaioshin strong? The way the story is written makes it pretty clear that AT wanted him to be weak. There's no reason for him to be above Pocus, let alone the base Saiyans.

There is an uncontradicted statement that Kaioshin is far above Piccolo who is far stronger than base Saiyans. He also showed good resilience against Boo.

Viz words it better in terms of the context. Piccolo can't sense Kaioshin, so he has no way of knowing his power.

Yea I would probably have it as something like this...


1) Kaioshin the Pussy

Doesn't think he can take out Badibi's men who should all be weaker than Yakkon and especially Dabura considering his extreme surprise at seeing the both of them. Considers Badibi a real threat.

2) Kaioshin the God

Being able to paralyze Super Saiyan 2 Gohan as well as the attacks he used on Fat Buu seem to be pretty fucking strong. What he did to Buu was ultra impressive I felt.


Perhaps Kaioshin's power works in a weird way. His ki itself isn't impressive but his psychic attacks are ultra impressive. Maybe he's sort of similar to how Guldo works.

Ok, I can run with that. His ki level is shit though, like really shit. He should be able to tell by movements how powerful Babidi's men are, even if he can't sense them accurately. He still is afraid of them.

Magical power can be up there I guess, maybe low SSJ2 tier.

 

[ahill1]

What would make Kaioshin strong? The way the story is written makes it pretty clear that AT wanted him to be weak. There's no reason for him to be above Pocus, let alone the base Saiyans.

There is an uncontradicted statement that Kaioshin is far above Piccolo who is far stronger than base Saiyans. He also showed good resilience against Boo.

Vegeta base showed good resilience against a stronger Boo ( Chibi Boo).

 

[ahill1]

What would make Kaioshin strong? The way the story is written makes it pretty clear that AT wanted him to be weak. There's no reason for him to be above Pocus, let alone the base Saiyans.

There is an uncontradicted statement that Kaioshin is far above Piccolo who is far stronger than base Saiyans. He also showed good resilience against Boo.

Viz words it better in terms of the context. Piccolo can't sense Kaioshin, so he has no way of knowing his power.

Yea I would probably have it as something like this...


1) Kaioshin the Pussy

Doesn't think he can take out Badibi's men who should all be weaker than Yakkon and especially Dabura considering his extreme surprise at seeing the both of them. Considers Badibi a real threat.

2) Kaioshin the God

Being able to paralyze Super Saiyan 2 Gohan as well as the attacks he used on Fat Buu seem to be pretty fucking strong. What he did to Buu was ultra impressive I felt.


Perhaps Kaioshin's power works in a weird way. His ki itself isn't impressive but his psychic attacks are ultra impressive. Maybe he's sort of similar to how Guldo works.

Ok, I can run with that. His ki level is shit though, like really shit. He should be able to tell by movements how powerful Babidi's men are, even if he can't sense them accurately. He still is afraid of them.

Magical power can be up there I guess, maybe low SSJ2 tier.

Agreed with this... I don't like Kaioshin being stronger than the base saiyans.