Recent Chapter Discussion

[Evil Vegeta]

I personally think Moro eclipsed Jiro after he went on his planet eating spree. 7-3 Moro only increased the difference even more.

I really don't even like talking about Beerus' power anymore. The character is constantly changing despite doing nothing.

 

[Pyro]

The thing with Beerus is he's endgame for Goku as far as Super goes. Toriyama has been holding back their rematch and if you think he's going to allow Goku to get so much stronger and stomp Beerus in the rematch, that's dumb as fuck. Obviously Beerus will be stronger or equal to Goku, so unless Beerus trains again at some point, I can't see the Broly-Moro-Jiren thing not being an issue. So far Goku's statement on Broly hasn't been directly contradicted, so LSSJ Broly >= Beerus should still stand. Now Moro is presumably tougher than Broly, so there's a noticeable gap between Moro and Beerus. Goku is at worst equal to this current Moro, so that would paint the picture Goku would stomp Beerus.

UI Goku >= Moro (w/Merus) > Moro (w/7-3) > LSSJ Broly >= Beerus

Tell me that ain't stupid. I'll shit my beans out if it's revealed Beerus actually isn't still on top.

 

[Southern Gothic]

The thing with Beerus is he's endgame for Goku as far as Super goes. Toriyama has been holding back their rematch and if you think he's going to allow Goku to get so much stronger and stomp Beerus in the rematch, that's dumb as fuck. Obviously Beerus will be stronger or equal to Goku, so unless Beerus trains again at some point, I can't see the Broly-Moro-Jiren thing not being an issue. So far Goku's statement on Broly hasn't been directly contradicted, so LSSJ Broly >= Beerus should still stand. Now Moro is presumably tougher than Broly, so there's a noticeable gap between Moro and Beerus. Goku is at worst equal to this current Moro, so that would paint the picture Goku would stomp Beerus.

UI Goku >= Moro (w/Merus) > Moro (w/7-3) > LSSJ Broly >= Beerus

Tell me that ain't stupid. I'll shit my beans out if it's revealed Beerus actually isn't still on top.

Look for it to be resolved by some half assed gag where Beerus does two push-ups for the first time in 10,000 years and he's suddently stronger from training.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

They became savvy to his energy absorption and it became useless, so he stopped using it. His other shit was already useless against their weaker forms.

So Moro is the "toughest" Goku's ever faced. How do we interpret that? Including Beerus, Jiren, Broly? Definitely includes Jiren, and probably should include Broly. But if it includes Broly, that means Beerus has gotten another retcon (or the "Goku doesn't know Beerus' full power" excuse is true) because Beerus is still unaffected by Moro's existence.

Beerus > UI Goku > Moro (Merus absorbed) > Moro (7-3 absorbed) > UIO Goku

Where do Broly and Jiren fit in there?

He probably ought to be above Jiren through scaling alone, not to mention Whis' comments make it apparent Current UI Goku > ToP UI Goku. As for Broly though, it depends. If we take it as a strength statement, Moro's definitely above him and Beerus assuming the film's script is fully canon to the manga. I'd probably need to know how it's phrased in the Japanese version to see if "saikyo" or "tsuyoku" is used at all as "toughest" alone could just refer to durability, something we know from the Boo Arc can be buffed through magic (and somewhat implied to be the case with Moro with how his pre-Namek absorbing self took a hard kick from PSSB Vegeta).

 

[Future Warrior]

I thought by toughest he just meant by how he was constantly kept one-upping them every time it seemed like they had an advantage. It's possible he hadn't physically become stronger than Broli or Jiren yet prior to gaining UI.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I know Moro didn't use the power for too long, but for the time that he did, he's at least as strong as Merus right there, right?

Which brings me back to Beerus: reading the chapters and watching how Beerus is observing, he definitely still comes off as the topdog. It's just...well, him being stronger than UI Goku would put him above Merus as well. Trainee Angel or not, he's still an Angel. Is Beerus really that ridiculous?

 

[SIAD]

Onto power-scaling, Goku confirms Moro is the toughest enemy he's ever faced and UI Moro states his and Galu's power are equal, so Current UI Goku = Merus = UI Moro >> 73 Moro > LSSJ Broly > ToP UI Goku > Beyond Limits Jiren. Guess I was wrong about UI Sign and UI's power not increasing along with Goku's general power. That, or they just instantly progressed through fighting Moro, which makes Whis' statement a bit more logical. Also, since Moro surpassed Beerus (treating DBS Broly's script as canon to the manga), I guess we'll see the manga doing a firm retcon to Beerus' power in the future 2.

So, to no surprise, a pretty awful chapter. I did find the panel of Moro breaking his hand on Galu's godly abs superficially cool at least, even if a poor man's version of what happened to Super #13. Also, the panels with Moro merged with the ground are the funniest shit in the manga thus far. Can't even explain why, but I end up laughing each time I see that derpy face .

Where would you place Gogeta PSSJB (Arc Broly)? And Vegeta SSJBE (Current)?

It still makes sense to have Vegeta SSJBE (Current) at a level similar to that of UI Goku (ToP), considering the confidence that Vegeta had to be stronger than Moro, despite knowing that the latter with his magic had defeated Goku . Vegeta had no way of knowing that Goku had fought in UI Sing state, instead of UI.

 

[Papasmurf]

I know Moro didn't use the power for too long, but for the time that he did, he's at least as strong as Merus right there, right?

Which brings me back to Beerus: reading the chapters and watching how Beerus is observing, he definitely still comes off as the topdog. It's just...well, him being stronger than UI Goku would put him above Merus as well. Trainee Angel or not, he's still an Angel. Is Beerus really that ridiculous?

There's a reason why Toyotaro answered that Vegetto being possibly stronger than Beerus was just Kaioshit's opinion - they want wiggle room to later retcon Beerus' power. It's Super's entire prerogative after all. Remember when Beerus used 70% of his power on Godku? remember when he was intimidated by Blue Kaioken x 2? Those things mean nothing and soon enough, the Vegetto statement might not either.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Where would you place Gogeta PSSJB (Arc Broly)? And Vegeta SSJBE (Current)?

PSSB Gogeta would be significantly above Broly and Beerus and, even if taking the high-end approach to Goku's "toughest opponent" statement, I'd still place him above UI Goku and UI Moro in raw power with how easily he was handling Broly. SSBE Vegeta would be somewhat below UI Sign Goku.

There's a reason why Toyotaro answered that Vegetto being possibly stronger than Beerus was just Kaioshit's opinion - they want wiggle room to later retcon Beerus' power. It's Super's entire prerogative after all. Remember when Beerus used 70% of his power on Godku? remember when he was intimidated by Blue Kaioken x 2? Those things mean nothing and soon enough, the Vegetto statement might not either.

It's worth noting though that, unlike the films and anime, Super's manga has been surprisingly consistent when it comes to not retconning Beerus' full power. Granted, it's probably only a matter of time now.

 

[SIAD]

Where would you place Gogeta PSSJB (Arc Broly)? And Vegeta SSJBE (Current)?

PSSB Gogeta would be significantly above Broly and Beerus and, even if taking the high-end approach to Goku's "toughest opponent" statement, I'd still place him above UI Goku and UI Moro in raw power with how easily he was handling Broly. SSBE Vegeta would be somewhat below UI Sign Goku.

There's a reason why Toyotaro answered that Vegetto being possibly stronger than Beerus was just Kaioshit's opinion - they want wiggle room to later retcon Beerus' power. It's Super's entire prerogative after all. Remember when Beerus used 70% of his power on Godku? remember when he was intimidated by Blue Kaioken x 2? Those things mean nothing and soon enough, the Vegetto statement might not either.

It's worth noting though that, unlike the films and anime, Super's manga has been surprisingly consistent when it comes to not retconning Beerus' full power. Granted, it's probably only a matter of time now.

And that UI Sing Goku would be at the level of UI Goku (ToP)?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Debatable. We know UI Goku is stronger, faster and more durable than his ToP self, but whether that applies to his UI Sign self or not is pretty arguable. Considering Whis bothering to point out UI increasing Goku's durability, I'd probably say his UI Sign self remained the same and his UI self simply progressed through Merus' lessons and adapting to Moro.

 

[SIAD]

Debatable. We know UI Goku is stronger, faster and more durable than his ToP self, but whether that applies to his UI Sign self or not is pretty arguable. Considering Whis bothering to point out UI increasing Goku's durability, I'd probably say his UI Sign self remained the same and his UI self simply progressed through Merus' lessons and adapting to Moro.

So:

Merus = UI Goku (Current) = UI Moro >>> Moro (OG73I) >= Broly LSSJ >= Beerus >= UI Goku (ToP) >= Jiren (Beyond Limits) > Jiren (FP) > Moro (FP) > UI Sing Goku > Vegeta SSJBE (Current)?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Possibly. As already discussed in this thread though, Beerus' demeanour and the vagueness of the statement make it difficult to say if Goku calling Moro the toughest person he's met the same as him being the strongest.

 

[SIAD]

Possibly. As already discussed in this thread though, Beerus' demeanour and the vagueness of the statement make it difficult to say if Goku calling Moro the toughest person he's met the same as him being the strongest.

Even seeing how sore Moro was, it wouldn't be strange if Moro's strength and toughness were correlated.

In that case, shouldn't Merus, UI Goku, and UI Moro be more powerful than Gogeta PSSJB? Considering that Merus and UI Goku far outperformed a Moro even stronger than Broly? Gogeta PSSJB didn't seem to be too superior to Broly, he just surpassed him with ease.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Possibly, though a lot of it could be down to Moro's complete lack of fighting skill (something quickly seen when having power equal to UI Goku still didn't change Goku tooling him). Also, the argument of Moro simply having great durability via his magic or in general would hold a lot of weight when we saw him take a kick from PSSB Vegeta whilst not much stronger than SSG Vegeta.

 

[SIAD]

Possibly, though a lot of it could be down to Moro's complete lack of fighting skill (something quickly seen when having power equal to UI Goku still didn't change Goku tooling him). Also, the argument of Moro simply having great durability via his magic or in general would hold a lot of weight when we saw him take a kick from PSSB Vegeta whilst not much stronger than SSG Vegeta.

And do you think it is possible that Beerus even being a bit inferior to Moro (OG73I), can defeat him with his Hakai, semi Dominated UI and has better fighting experience? Also if we talk about durability, Broly has a lot of durability.

Should UI Moro Grade 3 be as powerful as UI Moro?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

And do you think it is possible that Beerus even being a bit inferior to Moro (OG73I), can defeat him with his Hakai, semi Dominated UI and has better fighting experience?

It's possible, though I doubt he'd entirely bank on his Hakai and fighting experience, particularly when UI ought to give Moro greater reactions. It could be that Beerus' Hakaidama is simply an extremely powerful attack though, considering the other Hakaishin all feared the prospect of Beerus hitting them with it until Sidra put up his shield.

Also if we talk about durability, Broly has a lot of durability.

True, though not to a degree that seems much greater than his attack power.

Should UI Moro Grade 3 be as powerful as UI Moro?

If referring to his huge, uncontrolled form, then yes. The only difference is that UI Moro was initially able to use Merus' power, whereas his large form can't really utilise it properly due to his body reaching the limits of how much power it can control.

 

[SIAD]

And do you think it is possible that Beerus even being a bit inferior to Moro (OG73I), can defeat him with his Hakai, semi Dominated UI and has better fighting experience?

It's possible, though I doubt he'd entirely bank on his Hakai and fighting experience, particularly when UI ought to give Moro greater reactions. It could be that Beerus' Hakaidama is simply an extremely powerful attack though, considering the other Hakaishin all feared the prospect of Beerus hitting them with it until Sidra put up his shield.

Also if we talk about durability, Broly has a lot of durability.

True, though not to a degree that seems much greater than his attack power.

Should UI Moro Grade 3 be as powerful as UI Moro?

If referring to his huge, uncontrolled form, then yes. The only difference is that UI Moro was initially able to use Merus' power, whereas his large form can't really utilise it properly due to his body reaching the limits of how much power it can control.

And finally, do you think Merus, UI Goku and UI Moro have a power close to Whis? Something like 80-90%?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Even assuming they're indeed superior to Beerus, I wouldn't say anything suggests they are or need to be anywhere close to Whis' power.

 

[SIAD]

Even assuming they're indeed superior to Beerus, I wouldn't say anything suggests they are or need to be anywhere close to Whis' power.

If the power of Whis is 15.

What power would you give Merus, Moro (OG73I), Broly, Beerus, UI Goku (ToP) and Moro (FP)?