Recent Chapter Discussion

[Captain Cadaver]

I vehemently disagree. The people Trunks cares about in his timeline are different people than the one in the earlier version of the timeline Whis is creating. He will never see them again. He failed to save them. You don't just brush off loss like that because you're going to be with people who are "practically" the same. That is inhuman and unfeeling. Trunks was shafted in his own arc both character-wise and focus-wise and that is inexcusable.

Whilst that is true regarding their identity, it makes little difference when they're carbon copies of those in his timeline, with virtually no difference between them, especially compared to his timeline and the main one.

Trunks getting shafted character-wise is inexcusable, but relevance-wise, it makes far more sense than giving him the plot-based power up he gained in the anime. If you want Trunks to be the main focus, it would be a far better idea to have Goku and Vegeta completely absent from the arc, or have Trunks receive training from Whis, thereby making his relevance far more excusable. Breaking the own rules of your continuity, however loose they may be, by having Trunks suddenly overpower Zamasu with only a slight Genki boost is far more inexcusable than going down the far more logical route.

Let me also ask, what are your opinions on the Freeza Arc? Or the Cell Arc? The former was essentially Gohan, Kuririn and Vegeta's story, yet Goku had all the relevance and acted more as a plot device. The Cell Arc was more of a story for Goku and Trunks, yet they got shafted in favour of Gohan. If you find those excusable, then don't come at me with your double-standards.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I vehemently disagree. The people Trunks cares about in his timeline are different people than the one in the earlier version of the timeline Whis is creating. He will never see them again. He failed to save them. You don't just brush off loss like that because you're going to be with people who are "practically" the same. That is inhuman and unfeeling. Trunks was shafted in his own arc both character-wise and focus-wise and that is inexcusable.

Whilst that is true regarding their identity, it makes little difference when they're carbon copies of those in his timeline, with virtually no difference between them, especially compared to his timeline and the main one.

Trunks getting shafted character-wise is inexcusable, but relevance-wise, it makes far more sense than giving him the plot-based power up he gained in the anime. If you want Trunks to be the main focus, it would be a far better idea to have Goku and Vegeta completely absent from the arc, or have Trunks receive training from Whis, thereby making his relevance far more excusable. Breaking the own rules of your continuity, however loose they may be, by having Trunks suddenly overpower Zamasu with only a slight Genki boost is far more inexcusable than going down the far more logical route.

Let me also ask, what are your opinions on the Freeza Arc? Or the Cell Arc? The former was essentially Gohan, Kuririn and Vegeta's story, yet Goku had all the relevance and acted more as a plot device. The Cell Arc was more of a story for Goku and Trunks, yet they got shafted in theory of Gohan. If you find those excusable, then don't come at me with your double-standards.

What a burial!

 

[Pyro]

I don't understand why Zamasu coming to their timeline was a problem. Aside from the quantity of him, his power itself wouldn't have been a threat to Beerus. Whis and Beerus implied there was a way to beat him even with his immortality.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I don't understand why Zamasu coming to their timeline was a problem. Aside from the quantity of him, his power itself wouldn't have been a threat to Beerus. Whis and Beerus implied there was a way to beat him even with his immortality.

Zamasu could kill Kaioshin before Beerus notice that Zamasu is in the present timeline.

 

[Pyro]

Apparently the line was mistranslated by Viz. It's supposed to be the Hakai being unable to kill immortals.

 

[Void]

I assume Beerus simply meant that he wasn't allowed to kill gods. Otherwise "I can't kill gods." would imply that he is weaker than even Kaioshin.

 

[Papasmurf]

No it was a line stating he couldn't kill an immortal in the RAW. He's clearly able to kill apprentice Kaioshin anyway since he killed the present Zamasu

 

[Pyro]

Yeah, that's why it was so damn confusing at first. Good to see it's being updated. I don't know why they can't do that for the online version. I'm probably not going to buy the physical manga until it's finished.

 

[Future Warrior]

Wasn't Goku gonna kill an immortal Merged Zamasu with his own hakai?

 

[Papasmurf]

He wasn't certain if it would work. Beerus confirmed in this chapter that Hakaishin can't erase immortals, only seal them

 

[xenos5]

I vehemently disagree. The people Trunks cares about in his timeline are different people than the one in the earlier version of the timeline Whis is creating. He will never see them again. He failed to save them. You don't just brush off loss like that because you're going to be with people who are "practically" the same. That is inhuman and unfeeling. Trunks was shafted in his own arc both character-wise and focus-wise and that is inexcusable.

Whilst that is true regarding their identity, it makes little difference when they're carbon copies of those in his timeline, with virtually no difference between them, especially compared to his timeline and the main one.

Trunks getting shafted character-wise is inexcusable, but relevance-wise, it makes far more sense than giving him the plot-based power up he gained in the anime. If you want Trunks to be the main focus, it would be a far better idea to have Goku and Vegeta completely absent from the arc, or have Trunks receive training from Whis, thereby making his relevance far more excusable. Breaking the own rules of your continuity, however loose they may be, by having Trunks suddenly overpower Zamasu with only a slight Genki boost is far more inexcusable than going down the far more logical route.

Let me also ask, what are your opinions on the Freeza Arc? Or the Cell Arc? The former was essentially Gohan, Kuririn and Vegeta's story, yet Goku had all the relevance and acted more as a plot device. The Cell Arc was more of a story for Goku and Trunks, yet they got shafted in favour of Gohan. If you find those excusable, then don't come at me with your double-standards.

Goku got the plot based power up instead in the manga. How is that better when the arc is supposed to be focused on Trunks? And with what we know now of Hakai needing a separate energy source than ki (energy of destruction) to work (which Goku clearly doesn't have) it makes even less sense than the trunks sword spirit bomb since that at least is known to be usable by mortals.

Trunks failed to protect the people he cared about. They aren't the same people like you claim because part of who they were was the experiences they had. Those experiences and all the hardships he shared with them will only remain in Trunks's memories. There is no circumstance where he should not be broken up about them being erased.

The arcs named after the villains (Frieza and Cell) obviously had major focus on the villains. This arc however wasn't named the "Goku Black" arc. It was named the future trunks arc. And even if you see it only as a plot based powerup I loved the build up to Trunks's SSJ Ikari form. Him struggling with the idea his initial time travel may be part of the cause of Goku Black's rampage. And turning that self loathing to rage towards Black for suggesting that his wish to save the past back then was wrong. Trunks was developed well as a character in the arc and I would not trade that for anything.

Trunks went through no development in the manga version of the Goku Black arc. There was nothing in the manga that filled that gap. Rather than developing a different character it made the villains worse. The power scale does not matter more than the characters.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Goku got the plot based power up instead in the manga. How is that better when the arc is supposed to be focused on Trunks? And with what we know now of Hakai needing a separate energy source than ki (energy of destruction) to work (which Goku clearly doesn't have) it makes even less sense than the trunks sword spirit bomb since that at least is known to be usable by mortals.

Trunks failed to protect the people he cared about. They aren't the same people like you claim because part of who they were was the experiences they had. Those experiences and all the hardships he shared with them will only remain in Trunks's memories. There is no circumstance where he should not be broken up about them being erased.

The arcs named after the villains (Frieza and Cell) obviously had major focus on the villains. This arc however wasn't named the "Goku Black" arc. It was named the future trunks arc. And even if you see it only as a plot based powerup I loved the build up to Trunks's SSJ Ikari form. Him struggling with the idea his initial time travel may be part of the cause of Goku Black's rampage. And turning that self loathing to rage towards Black for suggesting that his wish to save the past back then was wrong. Trunks was developed well as a character in the arc and I would not trade that for anything.

Trunks went through no development in the manga version of the Goku Black arc. There was nothing in the manga that filled that gap. Rather than developing a different character it made the villains worse. The power scale does not matter more than the characters.

Because Goku already had the strength beforehand to make his power up far less of an asspull than Trunks. Hakai can be explained by Goku already being capable of using God Ki, therefore having the qualities necessary to use an alternate energy source not being too farfetched.

Whilst the second point remains standing, the thinking going towards it can easily be far different to one in a world full of handy plot devices, rather than one as realistic as our own. It wouldn't be surprising if a character's psychology was far different, though I at least concede that your point stands somewhat, albeit, not a positive to the arc.

Anime Trunks didn't develop much either. His way of thinking about the situation didn't change anymore than those of anyone else's beyond introspection on main timeline versions of some characters (Gohan and #18) and the ending of the arc. I agree that powerscaling is less important than characters, but poor writing can damage such far more. The writing behind SSJ Ikari had no foreshadowing, thereby making it an asspull, with his power up and speech against Merged Zamasu being such a generic Shonen protagonist moment it heavily damaged whatever positive characterisation was provided up until that point.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Troll needs to get spank!

 

[xenos5]

Because Goku already had the strength beforehand to make his power up far less of an asspull than Trunks.

Trunks could've gotten a lot of zenkais from fighting continuously against Black for a whole year. His SSJ2 definitely seemed to be above the average SSJ2 even before he got Ikari. And even though it was short he did get some training from SSB Vegeta. There was NOTHING that hinted at FPSSB and there wasn't really an opportunity for him to train for it as he did nothing but train with the mafuba during the FT arc. Trunks had a contradiction forced on him by Zamasu (the possibility that his desire to save everyone doomed everyone as the initial time travel he did set everything into motion) that caused him to feel powerful emotions (deep anger towards himself and Black at the same time) maybe even greater than when Gohan died. The idea that he could be a part of the cause of all the destruction Black caused tore at his very core. His transformation felt like a powerful scene to me. Whereas with Goku the FPSSB form held no weight. It just felt like something Toyo just came up with on the spot to try to make the manga different somehow.

Hakai can be explained by Goku already being capable of using God Ki, therefore having the qualities necessary to use an alternate energy source not being too farfetched.

God Ki is not energy of destruction. Energy of destruction is what fuels hakai. God Ki does not have the same properties as it (even a small portion of it destroying the soul so you don't go to otherworld if you die by it). Though I guess manga hakai hasn't even shown the capability of soul erasure and seems more akin to boring basic vaporization into a dust pile.

Whilst the second point remains standing, the thinking going towards it can easily be far different to one in a world full of handy plot devices, rather than one as realistic as our own. It wouldn't be surprising if a character's psychology was far different, though I at least concede that your point stands somewhat, albeit, not a positive to the arc.

Alright.

Anime Trunks didn't develop much either. His way of thinking about the situation didn't change anymore than those of anyone else's beyond introspection on main timeline versions of some characters (Gohan and #18) and the ending of the arc. I agree that powerscaling is less important than characters, but poor writing can damage such far more. The writing behind SSJ Ikari had no foreshadowing, thereby making it an asspull, with his power up and speech against Merged Zamasu being such a generic Shonen protagonist moment it heavily damaged whatever positive characterisation was provided up until that point.

Anime Trunks realized that going to the past and getting help isn't always going to solve his problems. He found his inner strength both mentally and power-wise. He needs to be the one to protect the future. He found the resolve he needed and even if he lost in the end he gave everything he had and didn't just rely on Goku and Vegeta to save the day. Manga Trunks could only get his ass kicked by Black, get a random healing ability, and slash a weakened Merged Zamasu to no effect.

Troll needs to get spank!

You're kinda acting like a little brat. Can't take criticisms of your precious manga at all, can you?

 

[KyuubiAhri]

I don't understand why Zamasu coming to their timeline was a problem. Aside from the quantity of him, his power itself wouldn't have been a threat to Beerus. Whis and Beerus implied there was a way to beat him even with his immortality.

how many merged zamasus were there.1000?10000? a MILLION??! Blue vegito was => beerus and i don't think he can handle that many zamasus.
Its like Saiyan saga Vegeta vs million Napas

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Just because you accept the manga's bullshit doesn't mean I have to. I don't have to accept your excuses at all.

The Manga is bullshit? Good thing that the original manga didn't release today otherwise you're meltdown would be hilarious!

Trunks being a healer was executed horribly with him somehow unconsciously healing Mai and not even knowing he had healing powers all this time like the Supreme Kai does not even fucking know what powers the ritual he does gives to someone. And I don't even think the Supreme Kai should be able to do a ritual to make someone his apprentice tbh. Only Elder Kai did magic rituals and that was because he was fused with a witch. And Supreme Kai didn't have healing powers of his own to begin with which is why they had to rely on Dende for that throughout the buu arc. So why can he give someone powers he doesn't have himself?

I'll give you this one.

FPSSB was something pulled out of Toyble's ass. SSJ2 had foreshadowing with it being the culmination of Gohan's rageboosts.

SSjin2 was foreshodowed? Wtf are you smoving there? It was all about Gohan's true power and none of them talks about SSjin2 until Boo arc which Toriyama pulled it out of nowhere, otherwise prove it that was foreshadowed!!!

S
SSJ3 didn't have foreshadowing but it made sense for Goku to be the one to achieve it since Goku was ahead of Vegeta in reaching FPSSJ and had 7 years to train in the other world. Mastered SSB it makes NO SENSE for Goku to be the one to achieve it since Vegeta trained much longer in the hyperbolic time chamber and all Goku did is train with the Mafuba. FPSSJ took a year of training in the hyperbolic time chamber to master. So how could a much more powerful form with god ki take much less time to master?

So it made sense for Goku to achieve SSjin3 than Vegeta who trained non stop in 7 years but it's not ok for Goku to learn MSSjinB since Vegeta trained hard in the ROSAT? Kill yourself dude! That's call "double standard" or hypocrisy.

Goku never saw Beerus use hakai. Nothing has shown that. The most evidence i've seen is Beerus mentioning Hakai while Goku and Vegeta were around but that does nothing to explain the properties of the technique or how to use it. It's especially bullshit with us now knowing Hakai uses energy of destruction which ONLY GoDS HAVE.

Debunked this already I'll do it again. When did Gohan learned how to use KHH? Because nothing implied that he learned it other than he pulled it out of his ass against Cell. I'll tell you how, it's called "off-screen".

Please try again.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The manga should be ready now. Can't wait on how Toyotaro will handle the recruiting episodes.

 

[Papasmurf]

This chapter was ass but at least it put a cap on Beerus' power somewhat. It seems Vegetto >= FP Beerus >> CSSJB Vegeta ~ Merged

 

[xenos5]

Manga Goku worst father confirmed https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/898710246222249984

How the fuck do you miss GOHAN'S birth?

 

[Pyro]

That's literally infuriating. Whoever thought that'd be funny needs to step back and think about the reality of that. It's fucking disgraceful and turns Goku into a total deadbeat. Goten was understandable since he was dead (but I bet you Vegeta would've been looking down from Otherworld if he was in the same position), but Gohan? What in the fuck prevented him from being there that time? When we see Goku and Gohan at the start of Z, they seem really close, and Goku is especially caring for him, like he's been there since day one of the little dude's life. This little "comedic relief" shits all over that goodwill. Goddammit.