The gap between Goku SSJ (Mecha saga) and Piccolo (Androids saga/pre Kami)

[Evil Vegeta]

Why not? It's not like he wanted #17 to be the strongest. He just wanted them under control.

 

[ahill1]

Why not? It's not like he wanted #17 to be the strongest. He just wanted them under control.

Never said Gero wanted #17 to be the strongest, but it's noted by the text Toriyama wrote that #18 was meant to be powered down in comparison to #17 due to the latter being rebel, but it failed as it wasn't enough, and that's where he got the idea to go back to the energy absorption design instead. Anyway, I don't see that decrease being so trivial as 6%.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Both got suppressed, but #18 got suppressed more. He only needs to be stronger than her.

 

[SSJ2]

It could just mean #17 >= Piccolo >= #18, which translates to #17 > #18.

Do I not have exactly that?

 

[ahill1]

It could just mean #17 >= Piccolo >= #18, which translates to #17 > #18.

Do I not have exactly that?

Where would you have Imperfect Cell (pre and post)?

 

[kriss-]

Imperfect Cell Pre is definitely a step up from Vegeta, but too weak to up against Android 18. So he is probably smack in between the both of them. After absorbing a ton of energy from Ginger town, he was strong enough to tank Piccolo's strongest Chi attack, that could have amplified his own power by as much as 3 fold.

 

[ahill1]

^Agreed.

 

[SSJ2]

It could just mean #17 >= Piccolo >= #18, which translates to #17 > #18.

Do I not have exactly that?

Where would you have Imperfect Cell (pre and post)?

Pre he is a close rival to Vegeta. Note I have 18 closer to Vegeta than most. Post he's multiple times stronger than 17.

 

[ahill1]

Do I not have exactly that?

Where would you have Imperfect Cell (pre and post)?

Pre he is a close rival to Vegeta. Note I have 18 closer to Vegeta than most. Post he's multiple times stronger than 17.

Yea, but you have him stronger than Vegeta, right? And Imperfect Cell cannot rival #18, hence why the gap between Vegeta and #18 should be quite a gap.

 

[SSJ2]

Barely. Strong enough to have to go all out to win.

No, Cell can rival 18 but not 17 and things work.

 

[Six Trails]

Why would #16 leave out the fact that Cell rivaled #18 when talking about his and Kamiccolo's power?

 

[SSJ2]

Why does he have to include it? Piccolo rivals both 17 and 18, which is big news considering 18 and 17 already have a gap between them. Cell is a distant rival to 18, so why would he be mentioned as only barely rivalling 18?

 

[SSJ2]

None of the following numbers contradict anything:

Android 18: 937,500,000

Android 17: 1,000,000,000

Kamiccolo: 1,050,000,000
-Weighted: 965,000,000

SSJ Vegeta: 750,000,000

Imperfect Cell: 800,000,000

 

[Six Trails]

I don't even consider a 800 to rival a 937.5, so that gap is fine. I don't see why you have Cell barely weaker than Vegeta, though. According to Vegeta, Cell "easily" surpasses him.

 

[ahill1]

Barely. Strong enough to have to go all out to win.

No, Cell can rival 18 but not 17 and things work.

He should be stronger than Vegeta, even if it's not by much.

Yea, I said that possibility to Mike, but he did not agree. At the end, I even agreed with him. I don't think he rival #18. Sure, #16 said Kamiccolo rivals both Androids, so Cell could rival #18 and yet not rival "both". But like Mike said, I don't think would not be worthy of note if Cell's power rivaled #18.

 

[SSJ2]

My numbers don't even have him rivalling anyway, but it's a possibility. You can't put words into a character's mouth.

 

[SSJ2]

I don't even consider a 800 to rival a 937.5, so that gap is fine. I don't see why you have Cell barely weaker than Vegeta, though. According to Vegeta, Cell "easily" surpasses him.

Easily doesn't have to mean the gap is big. It's more as though the Super Saiyan form that he worked so hard to achieve is being overtaken by many people, easily. Piccolo merged with God to become that strong, Cell absorbed people. It was easily done.

 

[ahill1]

While #16's line doesn't have to indicate Imperfect Cell doesn't rival #18, I agree with Mike. I think if he rivaled her, it would of worthy of note. Besides this, I think weighted Kamiccolo was basically on #18's level. So #18 would beat Imperfect Cell with more or less the same ease as Kamiccolo did. And this Imperfect Cell was noticeable above Vegeta. Said that, the gap between #18 and Vegeta should be quite large.

@Zoro - I think your gap between Vegeta SSJ and Imperfect Cell is too small. I would have it at least at 1.1x.

 

[SSJ2]

There are a lot of "I thinks" in there, so that goes to prove that what we are currently discussing cannot come to an agreement factually.

It isn't necessary to mention. We know two huge powers are fighting, one rivals the androids, the other is just a large power. It doesn't mean that it isn't rivalling the weaker android. Anyhow, I don't have Cell rivalling 18, it's just a possibility. See my numbers above.

Did Cell and Vegeta ever fight? No, Cell ran away when he saw Vegeta flying around and was visibly worried at the fact that someone as powerful as Vegeta existed. Vegeta admits inferiority, but his statement about Super Saiyan being easily surpassed doesn't need to mean that it was surpassed by a lot. Again, read what I just posted on the subject above.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I always took the "easily surpassed" statement to just sum up the enemies as a whole. All of them were stronger than the Super Saiyans at varying levels.