Warm up Goku vs Cell

[Kyo]

Never fought Cell with it

 

[p123]

Why do you say that? Unpowered Goku has access to a range of power. Next to nothing up to Perfect Cell. It's the same thing as how they've fought in Base at max power without powering up. Why is that such a strange concept to you?

 

[Kyo]

I'm referring specifically to what pakl said, "when he came out of the rosat". Thought that's what you meant.

 

[p123]

Of course not. Pakl is a fool.

Do you not agree with this?

50% Goku >> Goku (vs Cell Warm Up ) = Goku ( Exiting Rosat Capability not powering up)??

 

[Kyo]

Last I really thought about it I was on the fence. I'd need convincing to go for either side.

 

[p123]

Yes I remember we've talked about this before.

Let's make it plain and simple. Can Goku get up to 50% power without powering up?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

No, we never saw anyone in the Z fighters that can raise their power without powering up except the villains IMO. Also does this suggest that Warm Up Goku > Super Vegeta?

 

[Kyo]

There's nothing explicit to show that he can, p, but if you can prove he was at 50% some other way then it's a pretty easy thing to come to terms with.

 

[p123]

Well here's the logic.

It's pretty simple.

1) Goku needs to do a big power up to reach 50%.
2) Goku did not do a big power up for the Warm Up.

Simple enough?

 

[SSJ2]

Silent power ups tho, Freeza got to 50% by doing nothing.

 

[p123]

Sure he doesn't power up, but he announces his power up and concentrates to increase his power.

Goku on the other hand needed to do massive power up just 10 days before, why would things change so suddenly?

 

[SSJ2]

To be honest I find the power up for Karin to be strange in its own right. Why couldn't Goku just tell Karin what he was at initially?

 

[p123]

Because it wouldn't be epic. The only thing I don't like is that Vegeta isn't more orgasmic at his level. He should be going nuts if Goku is indeed 4x greater.

 

[Kyo]

Goku doing a power up doesn't have to mean he has to do that every time to hit that level, series is never consistent with that.

If it can be proven by some other means that warmup = 50% then it's fine, else he was at some lower level and needs to """power up""" after all.

 

[ahill1]

Goku 1st and 2nd time shown turning into SSJ3 :wink:

 

[p123]

He still needs to transform.

I think you got it backwards though Kyo. Is there any reason we think 50%=Warm Up? I never saw any logic to that. The onus is on those who feel that way, not the other way around. You have to prove he's at 50% and not some random level, not the other way around. The burden of proof is on you.

 

[Kyo]

Oh I'm not saying burden of proof isn't on the people claiming warmup = 50%. Just saying that if it can be proven then it should be easy enough to come to terms with the powering up situation.

I'll dig up old posts on this when I have time to see what I used to think I guess.

 

[Victorious]

All the stuff with Kamiccolo and Vegeta suggests Goku 50% MSSJ Goku and warm up MSSJ Goku are not the same.


Also...Goku is at very low power when he first exists the RoSaT. Maybe 10% power at best. Because Vegeta hadnt even realized until Goku told him that Goku had surpassed his "Super Vegeta" power. Remember when Goku just laughed and said "yeah, i'm far more powerful than u".

 

[p123]

Maybe Vic will honor us with a complete breakdown of the situation once he gets more warmed up. I can add that to my Guidelines For Difficult Characters Power Scaling thread as well. Vic when you get around to it, treat it like a damn science project. Put pictures, quotes, etc. Eventually. And if you want to do the counter Kyo, that would be cool.

 

[Kyo]

I could. Not anytime soon though. Too busy to do anything expansive.