Warm up Goku vs Cell

[ahill1]

Well I don't think Cell was at the fake ki level output [when #16 said Vegeta was still better in every way] when Goku went to see him in the ring, that's ridiculous. Goku already knows Super Vegeta got wrecked anyway. That makes no sense.

Well, nobody could really tell how strong Cell was in the Super Vegeta's fight, only Kuririn could when he was "loved tap" or something like this. If we consider the initial Cell's level like his base level, then I don't see the problem with him staying on it.

I'd say Goku realized Cell had more power based on his knowledge of Super Vegeta being stomped and initial Cell being still < Super Vegeta, but that doesn't make much sense considering Goku theorized full power Cell to be above his 100% power, so Goku clearly has a better understanding of the situation compared to the others warriors, dunno why.

BTW, Cell never actually FOUGHT at that fake ki level output. He toyed with Vegeta the whole time..then when he decided to actually let Vegeta in on just how big their gap was, he allowed Vegeta's full force kick to hit him..just to tank it and intimidate him. Cell's fight with Vegeta is just him fucking around with Vegeta. Even at this casual 'warm up' level where he has no aura..he's still like 2x Super Vegeta.

Yeah, but that was like his sensible chi. It was the chi everyone could feel up until the time Kuririn was kicked and only then he realized how the level Cell was showcasing was nothing compared to the one he could wreck Vegeta.

 

[p123]

Once Cell reveals he is superior, what's the point of continuing to conceal his power. I feel like these points you are bringing up aren't really worth it. You should bring some evidence to display your point, the burden is on you to prove imo.

 

[ahill1]

Well, if we consider Cell wasn't concealing his power, then we'd have Cell (everyone's expectations) > Cell (vs Vegeta), right? But does it imply 50% =/= warm up?

 

[Victorious]

Ahill show me your numbers for this warm up Cell = 50% Goku = warm up Goku nonsense. Get all the guys i asked for too.

 

[ahill1]

Well considering the Cell to which Goku was referring had the same chi level output of the one who tooled Vegeta, then warm up = 50% seems unlikely now, right? Unless they think Cell (true power) >> 50% Goku.

 

[p123]

This is the thinking process.

1) Goku arrives and announces Cell is way stronger than they even thought.
2) Goku powers up and they are all amazed and think it's his full power and that he only probably doesn't have a chance, which is shocking to them.

You can figure out the rest, this shit ain't complicated.

 

[Victorious]

Cell's 2nd form to Perfect form pretty damn big power up.

Perfect Cell [full power] >>> MSSJ Gohan >> Perfect Cell [vs Goku] > 100% MSSJ Goku >>> 50% MSSJ Goku >> Perfect Cell [warm up + Buff] > SSJG3 Trunks >> Perfect form [warm up] >>> Super Vegeta >> 2nd form Cell

 

[p123]

Yep it's tremendous. Which is why the 50x boost is actually essential. The Super Saiyans are definitely over 50x stronger than Android 18 in the Buu Saga. Without a doubt.

 

[Victorious]

That was some retarded filler having SSJ2 Kid Gohan fight Semi Cell..and Semi Cell even attack him, lol. In the Manga he just decided straight to blow himself up.

 

[ahill1]

Cell's 2nd form to Perfect form pretty damn big power up.

Perfect Cell [full power] >>> MSSJ Gohan >> Perfect Cell [vs Goku] > 100% MSSJ Goku >>> 50% MSSJ Goku >> Perfect Cell [warm up + Buff] > SSJG3 Trunks >> Perfect form [warm up] >>> Super Vegeta >> 2nd form Cell

But why is 50% MSSJ Goku >> SSJG3 Trunks necessary? Grade 3 Trunks was also above Cell (vs Vegeta) by a wide margin.

 

[Victorious]

I think he's >> SSJG3 Trunks just because I think he's over buff warm up Cell who then should be over buff Trunks.

50% goku is the highest power yet seen in the series.

 

[ahill1]

I think he's >> SSJG3 Trunks just because I think he's over buff warm up Cell who then should be over buff Trunks.

50% goku is the highest power yet seen in the series.

But why you think this? Just gut feeling?

 

[p123]

Goku's power is suggested to be potentially his full power. If he was merely only as strong as Trunks was, it would kill the narrative of Cell being much, much stronger than what he was putting out. It's a definite Cell Potential Power >>>> All.

The fact that Goku's power could even be considered as Goku's true power tells us that it must be significantly superior to anything else at minimum.

 

[ahill1]

Well, Trunks' power was pretty much an useless one, so I don't think being inferior to such useless power would kill anything.

Bu the way, we know Trunks' line of "Is that strong?" was a Vizism. Does Goku's comment of "There's no way to tell how strong he can get if he finally gets down to business" imply Cell (true power) >>> Cell (vs vegeta)? Does it have to imply a pretty big gap?

 

[p123]

The point is, Trunks isn't savagely superior to Cell.

Cell's true power is suggested to be ridiculously more powerful than his current power. That's the point.

Cell's true power is the important thing to remember here. Goku is a byproduct. Goku just happens to be strong enough to where they are shocked at the mountain they have to climb to even hope to compete with Cell.

Japanese Anime has him say "Is that so?" So, I wouldn't say it's a Vizism. They are correctly translating the surprise at Goku's statement. No controversy here with that.

Yes, the gap should be huge. Cell's True Power clearly should be way above anything else that was showcased. Trunks is surely taking it in that manner wouldn't you agree? Why aren't you?

 

[Victorious]

I think he's >> SSJG3 Trunks just because I think he's over buff warm up Cell who then should be over buff Trunks.

50% goku is the highest power yet seen in the series.

But why you think this? Just gut feeling?

Well yes it's a gut feeling just judging by Goku's power up for Karin and how beast it was and how they all shat themselves. But anyway the main reason is that it's based on deductive logic and makes the most sense.

 

[p123]

Does it make sense for Trunks to be shaken so badly by Goku's power up with his Super Saiyan Grade 3 power being superior? I'd think not. Sure, it was a useless power, but isn't there a reason to show the old character getting surpassed by the new like always in Dragonball? Shaken is not everything, but it signifies it could be.

 

[ahill1]

Japanese Anime has him say "Is that so?" So, I wouldn't say it's a Vizism. They are correctly translating the surprise at Goku's statement. No controversy here with that.

Goku tells he won't know until he tries, it's guesses. "I won't know until I try", "Damn, is him that powerful?" - Does that even make sense, man?

Well yes it's a gut feeling just judging by Goku's power up for Karin and how beast it was and how they all shat themselves.

^That's all we've got for Trunks' reactions. As said in the following panel, it's likely he didn't even know the possessor of such chi, so acting that way to a chi that suddenly appeared is natural.

Besides, Vegeta also shit on his pants at Perfect Cell's suppressed power, even though he could surpass said power with Super Saiyan grade 3:

Nobody's gonna be factoring a power said to be useless. Not to mention, we also have everyone shitting his pants right after base Gotenks appeared, even though everyone sensed SSJ3 Goku's power. So those reactions aren't really a good way to tell 50% Goku > SSJG3 Trunks.

 

[p123]

Which suggests he accepted Goku's statement of, "If he really gets down to business, who knows how strong he can be."

Are you trying to say that Trunks thinks that Cell cannot get any stronger and he thinks that Goku is lying?

 

[ahill1]

Never said it.