Warm up Goku vs Cell

[ahill1]

So lets start this again. Lets go with Trunks' line in Viz, in which he says "Is that strong? I was afraid of that..."

Is that in reference to Goku's "I don't know how strong he can become if he gets down to business" rather than Goku saying he probably won't have a chance?

 

[Pakl]

Of course not. Pakl is a fool.

Do you not agree with this?

50% Goku >> Goku (vs Cell Warm Up ) = Goku ( Exiting Rosat Capability not powering up)??

P, you call me a fool but say the same thing I do?? Goku only has one state since he came out of the Rosat except his power up vs Korrin...

 

[p123]

I'm just messing with you, fool. I think you take certain parts too far with some of your theories, but you are very good, very in depth. Always think you do good work for the most part.

Ahill the point is that there is no objection to Cell can get way stronger. That's accepted by the cast and the reader. The Cell we saw was tough and WHAT! That's not even his real power, not even close to it! Orgasm.

 

[ahill1]

What does Goku's "No way to tell how strong he can become if he gets down to business" mean?

 

[p123]

What do you think jackass? This isn't a statement with some double meaning.

 

[ahill1]

But how Trunks and co. would see the statement? That Cell had yet to reveal his full power?

 

[Victorious]

Ahill if you really believe

50% Goku = warm up Goku then show me your numbers for

warm up Goku
warm up Cell
warm up Cell [buff]
SSJG3 Future Trunks
Kamiccolo [post RoSaT]

 

[ahill1]

I dunno in what to believe right now, but here goes my numbers with 50% = warm up:

warm up Goku : 50
warm up Cell : 53
warm up Cell [buff] : 70
SSJG3 Future Trunks : 63
Kamiccolo [post RoSaT] : 50 ~ 55

 

[Victorious]

Why is warm up Cell ahead of warm up Goku? There's really no reason not to have them practically equal.

Secondly...where would you put "expected Cell" to be...expected Cell as in..the minimum estimate that Trunks and Vegeta think Cell's full power is right after Goku powers up to 50%..... Would u not say that expected Cell has to be at least like a 70 or 80?

 

[ahill1]

I think warm up Cell had a slight edge over Goku, similar to the edge Freeza had on base Goku at their warm up. After hitting Cell from behind, Cell seems to show some superiority over Goku, punching him in the face and knocking him into the ground:
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-203-index-2-page-20.html

Well, if we go with Trunks and co. already knowing Cell might be >> the Cell who tooled them, then there would be no enough space to put the expected Cell to which Kamiccolo was no match against and to which Trunks was sweating at.

 

[Victorious]

What? That picture shows Goku getting a blow in and Cell getting a blow in. Cell looks pissed by getting hit too. I don't think there's any evidence of them being more than 2% away from one another.

Trunks started sweating bullets after he heard Kamiccolo post RoSaT was fodder...but even before that he should know that Cell full power >> Cell warming up

So in Trunks mind

Cell [ Kamiccolo is fodder] >> Cell [there's no telling how strong he might be] >> Cell [warming up].

Now then 100% MSSJ Goku is even Above THAT..and i would say by a rather wide [beat down] margin..as all the Z Senshi are astounded by 100% MSSJ Goku's power.

So yeah...50% Goku needs to be a lot stronger than warming up Cell. 50% Goku should be marginally weaker than whatever power Trunks was initially expecting Cell to be.

Something like this works.

100% MSSJ Goku : 100
expected Cell [Kamicollo is fodder] : 75-80
expected Cell [there's no telling how strong / post Goku power up for Karin] : 55
50% MSSJ Goku : 50
Kamiccolo post RoSaT [weighted] : 45 [unweighted 55]
Buff Cell : 40
SSJG3 Future Trunks : 30
Warm Up Cell : 25
warm up Goku : 25


Something like this does not work

100% MSSJ Goku : 100
expected Cell [Kamicollo is fodder] : 75-80
expected Cell [there's no telling how strong / post Goku power up for Karin] : 55
50% MSSJ Goku : 50
Kamiccolo post RoSaT [weighted] : 45 [unweighted 55]
Buff Cell : 80
SSJG3 Future Trunks : 60
Warm Up Cell : 53
Warm Up Goku : 50

That would mean that when Goku said initially that "there's no telling how strong he might get" and the Z Senshi looked very intimidated....that Goku meant Cell was almost already fighting at full power..at like 90% or so. Now how does that make any sense? Goku was implying that Cell can get A LOT STRONGER. Not to mention Cell himself implied this several times when he said he was just warming up which both Trunks and Vegeta heard.

I think the whole fact that Goku's 50% Goku godsmacked everyone...not to mention that 50% Goku had an aura is icing on the cake. But it makes no logical sense for 50% Goku to be equal to warm up Goku even if there was no godsmack powerup or aura.

 

[ahill1]

Not to mention Cell himself implied this several times when he said he was just warming up which both Trunks and Vegeta heard.

But the warm up was in reference to Cell before getting serious, no? Look at the way it's said:

Vegeta knows Cell isn't taking this seriously, to which Cell replies it's only an warm up. The Cell who tanked Vegeta's kick to the neck was no longer defined as warming up Cell, but Cell fighting for real:

Spoiler

not to mention that 50% Goku had an aura is icing on the cake.

He didn't have an aura. At least the Goku who Karin was begging to stop didn't have one:

But okay, Goku telling everyone that there's no way to tell how strong he might be if he finally comes down to business means Cell [expected] >> Cell [vs vegeta and trunks] (since my initial Cell who was below Super Vegeta argument was apparently not strong enough). But does that mean 50% Goku has to be also >> warm up Cell? Why?

 

[Pakl]

I dont get what is the argument anymore... Sorry just woke up

 

[Pakl]

Goku comes out of the ROSAT in his SSjin state then powers up to Korrin to 50% and goes back to his natural look state (his eyes) and stays the same until he powers up to max vs Cell.. Regardless how strong he was.. He was below half of his power in the warm up.. Thats shown and obvious

 

[p123]

Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks all learn that Cell will be much more powerful than what is shown when things get real ahill. How does that not factor in for you.

Cell ( Goku's Estimate ) >>>> Current Cell

 

[p123]

Guys...

Warm Up Goku = Warm Up Cell

They are equals. The only difference is that Cell goes all out after getting tricked by the KHH, whereas they fought at a more relaxed pace before. They should be direct equals in my book.

Also 50% Goku had an aura. Warm Up Goku did not. Done.

 

[ahill1]

Also 50% Goku had an aura. Warm Up Goku did not. Done.

50% Goku hadn't an aura man. Look at the image I posted. Karin is literally begging Goku to stop in the panel where 50% Goku is exactly shown. He had no aura.

 

[Pakl]

Are you seriously trying to argue Goku was half power vs Cell? Goku powered down and stayed the same untill the cell games... He is in his 10 days resting state which is below half

Also just because he had no aura in one panel doesnt mean a lot because he had it before but against Cellbhe had no aura the entire chapter

 

[p123]

Ahill, try looking a page before. He has the aura while powering up.

 

[ahill1]

That's because they generally do have an aura when powering up or transforming. It generally goes accompanied with an aura. Look at Son Goten transforming into SSJ:
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-233-index-2-page-7.html
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-233-index-2-page-8.html

The one Karin was begging to stop way plain good 50% Goku, yet we see the lack of an aura.