Were the Cell Jr.s playing-around against Vegeta & Trunks?

[Papasmurf]

He likes to overrate himself, and by extension his children 1

But yeah, I think the Cell Jr.s were stronger, but not nearly enough to take any visible advantage. I usually had it like 102 (CJ) 98 (Veggie) 95 (Trunks) or something like that.

 

[ahill1]

We didn't see almost nothing of Piccolo's fight, just a panel hard to realize what he was doing. But we saw AT depicting him still in a position to continue the fight, which not even tired FPSSJ Goku managed.

 

[Papasmurf]

For what it's worth it does seem like Piccolo took a senzu after fighting the Cell Jr., so he was probably badly damaged.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

We didn't see almost nothing of Piccolo's fight, just a panel hard to realize what he was doing. But we saw AT depicting him still in a position to continue the fight, which not even tired FPSSJ Goku managed.

In my opinion it was just to show that Piccolo was still much higher than the humans.

If we go by that logic does that prove Tenshinhan > Kuririn, since Tenshinhan stood longer than Kuririn?

 

[Papasmurf]

Kuririn was actually playing it smart and trying to attack the Cell Jr.'s footing, while Tenshinhan was being a moron and actually thought he'd get a punch in

Just look at the fight with Nappa. Ten lost an arm in 2 seconds and did nothing, even with the Kikoho. Kuririn on the other hand

Almost cut Nappa's face off

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Kuririn was actually playing it smart and trying to attack the Cell Jr.'s footing, while Tenshinhan was being a moron and actually thought he'd get a punch in

Just look at the fight with Nappa. Ten lost an arm in 2 seconds and did nothing, even with the Kikoho. Kuririn on the other hand

Almost cut Nappa's face off

So why did he take that kick for?

 

[Papasmurf]

He thought the additional stimulation would finally grow his nose back

 

[ahill1]

In my opinion it was just to show that Piccolo was still much higher than the humans.

Tired Goku was also in the ground, yet we know he's much stronger than the humans. Before the Rosat, Piccolo was at #17's level and reached a whole different level after it, according to Goku's own words. So we don't need Piccolo standing in the fight to know he's much stronger than the humans, it's already something set in stone. Toriyama doesn't need to reinforce it.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

In my opinion it was just to show that Piccolo was still much higher than the humans.

Tired Goku was also in the ground, yet we know he's much stronger than the humans. Before the Rosat, Piccolo was at #17's level and reached a whole different level after it, according to Goku's own words. So we don't need Piccolo standing in the fight to know he's much stronger than the humans, it's already something set in stone. Toriyama doesn't need to reinforce it.

He doesn't have to be actually. He could be reall really low.

Well it's just a visual clue. It just shows Piccolo's standing (no pun intended) compared to the humans and tired Goku if you want.

 

[ahill1]

He doesn't have to be actually. He could be reall really low.

Who? Tired Goku? Yes, he does, because it doesn't make sense for him to lose so much power that he'd be way below his base level, specially when he flared an aura when the Cell Junior was going to attack him.

Well it's just a visual clue. It just shows Piccolo's standing (no pun intended) compared to the humans and tired Goku if you want.

Again, Piccolo being far above the humans is something set in stone, so we don't need Piccolo looking better after the Junior's assault to know this. Why would Piccolo be standing after the end of the fight, being no much different from Vegeta and Trunks, if AT intentions were to portray his as really weak?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

He doesn't have to be actually. He could be reall really low.

Who? Tired Goku? Yes, he does, because it doesn't make sense for him to lose so much power that he'd be way below his base level, specially when he flared an aura when the Cell Junior was going to attack him.

Well it's just a visual clue. It just shows Piccolo's standing (no pun intended) compared to the humans and tired Goku if you want.

Again, Piccolo being far above the humans is something set in stone, so we don't need Piccolo looking better after the Junior's assault to know this. Why would Piccolo be standing after the end of the fight, being no much different from Vegeta and Trunks, if AT intentions were to portray his as really weak?

I don't think the aura has too mean much personally. It could just mean he's going to go all-out, especially since he was getting destroyed by the Cell Jr. anyway and we know Vegeta is way below Goku.

Why can't AT just want to re-inforce it? Not like he'd lose anything by doing so. AT had 2 statements that only showed Vegeta and Trunks behind Goku and Gohan were really of any relevance at the Cell-Games. Why were those 2 statements there, if Piccolo was meant to be somewhat close to them?

Also @Papasmurf brought-up a good point of Piccolo needing a Senzu-Bean. That showed he really was damaged and not really even close to fighting on even-ground.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, Piccolo has a bloodied up face after fighting but his face is pretty clean in the next few chapters which seems to show he took a senzu.

 

[ahill1]

Why can't AT just want to re-inforce it? Not like he'd lose anything by doing so.

Because it'd be pointless to reinforce something so set in stone as this. It's the same thing as Kuririn only mentioning that Cell is far worse than the androids to Goku, in the airplane, without bringing up 17/18/19/20. That's not a good reason to show these latter ones didn't surpass Freeza, because it's something already shown, and there's probably another reason Kuririn only mentioned Cell. Likewise, Piccolo standing alongside with Vegeta and Trunks being AT's way of saying "hey, you guys didn't forget that Piccolo isn't hot garbage as the humans, right?" serves no purpose and it's only unnatural.

AT had 2 statements that only showed Vegeta and Trunks behind Goku and Gohan were really of any relevance at the Cell-Games.

Piccolo doesn't need to be far weaker for these statements to just exist. He only needs to be weaker, which I never denied, but by how much is anyone's guess. Cell only mentioned Vegeta and Trunks as possible Goku's replacement because they are the next strongest guys (or at least according to Cell's guess), the same way Goku, after recovering from the heart virus, only mentioned that if Vegeta wasn't able to beat them, he wouldn't be able too, without referencing Trunks, who shouldn't be much different than Vegeta.

Also @User avatar
Papasmurf brought-up a good point of Piccolo needing a Senzu-Bean. That showed he really was damaged and not really even close to fighting on even-ground.

I don't remember Piccolo eating the Senzu. Vegeta and Trunks didn't too? The manga it's not so clear on this, but in the anime Vegeta ate a Senzu bean for sure.

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't think Vegeta ate a senzu in the manga. He refused help even after taking grave damage from SPC, so I doubt he would accept it here.

Trunks also reverted to base form indicating that he was conserving energy after his fight, which wouldn't really need to happen if he ate a senzu and got back up to FP.

 

[ahill1]

^Trunks reverting to base might also indicate he lost a considerable amount of power, the same way Vegeta reverted to base after #19's fight.

 

[Papasmurf]

True, but he wasn't injured enough to need a senzu in that case, and Vegeta (being around his strength) probably wasn't either. Piccolo seems to have taken a senzu regardless.

 

[ahill1]

I don't think Vegeta ate a senzu in the manga. He refused help even after taking grave damage from SPC, so I doubt he would accept it here.

So you are saying Vegeta didn't eat a Senzu because of his pride, rather than being injured or not?

 

[Papasmurf]

Both because of his pride and being not tired enough to need reversion to base imo.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Why can't AT just want to re-inforce it? Not like he'd lose anything by doing so.

Because it'd be pointless to reinforce something so set in stone as this. It's the same thing as Kuririn only mentioning that Cell is far worse than the androids to Goku, in the airplane, without bringing up 17/18/19/20. That's not a good reason to show these latter ones didn't surpass Freeza, because it's something already shown, and there's probably another reason Kuririn only mentioned Cell. Likewise, Piccolo standing alongside with Vegeta and Trunks being AT's way of saying "hey, you guys didn't forget that Piccolo isn't hot garbage as the humans, right?" serves no purpose and it's only unnatural.

AT had 2 statements that only showed Vegeta and Trunks behind Goku and Gohan were really of any relevance at the Cell-Games.

Piccolo doesn't need to be far weaker for these statements to just exist. He only needs to be weaker, which I never denied, but by how much is anyone's guess. Cell only mentioned Vegeta and Trunks as possible Goku's replacement because they are the next strongest guys (or at least according to Cell's guess), the same way Goku, after recovering from the heart virus, only mentioned that if Vegeta wasn't able to beat them, he wouldn't be able too, without referencing Trunks, who shouldn't be much different than Vegeta.

Also @User avatar
Papasmurf brought-up a good point of Piccolo needing a Senzu-Bean. That showed he really was damaged and not really even close to fighting on even-ground.

I don't remember Piccolo eating the Senzu. Vegeta and Trunks didn't too? The manga it's not so clear on this, but in the anime Vegeta ate a Senzu bean for sure.

The point is there's nothing to lose. Some of it is kind-of inconsistent anyway, like Tenshinhan standing. I don't know whether you can base your opinion on only something as ambiguous as that.

Well in that other example you mentioned Vegeta was the strongest Saiyan out of them anyway, so there was no point in mentioning Trunks. My point is Vegeta and Trunks are clearly more than on one occasion treated as being in a different tier to Piccolo. If it really was AT's intention for Piccolo to be somewhat close to them then you'd think he wouldn't have been as poorly represented as he was. Almost everything besides Piccolo standing (which Tenshinhan did too, mind you) points to Piccolo being well below them.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Goku thinks Piccolo has greatly powered up.