Who made the bigger fusion gain: Merged Zamasu or Kibitoshin?

[Animelover5487]

Who was given the larger power up from fusion Black/Zamasu or Kibito/Shin?

 

[theallpowerfulpuipui]

Krillin and Tien

Spoiler

 

[Six Trails]

I honestly have no idea what kind of gain Zamas got from Fusion but Kaioshin's with Kibito was incredibly underwhelming. Probably only 5-10x.

 

[GSM123]

[mention]Six Trails[/mention] was it? Kaioshin and Kibito were both pretty weak, and all we know is that they don't catch up to the top tiers when merged.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Definitely Kibitoshin. Black was already pretty strong on his own and the difference between SSB and PSSB isn't suggested to be as much as most Super Saiyan forms. Meanwhile, Shin was anywhere from Small Star to Large Star level depending how you think he compares to the Base Saiyans and got boosted up to Solar System level based on Kibitoshin likely not being to the SS2s. That, and Super fusion in general is pretty lowballed compared to Z's.

 

[Papasmurf]

Merged Zamasu wasn't even that much stronger than Black in the original AT draft, to the point that two Blues could take turns fighting him. While he was stronger in both the anime and manga (especially in the former where he turned purple), it wasn't by all that much considering just mastering Blue allowed Goku to equal him.

By contrast Kaioshin was complete fodder to Dabura, yet after fusing he was suggested to be fairly relevant to SSJ2-SSJ3 tier and Rou Kaioshin said that he might get absorbed (meaning Boo would at least see his absorption as somewhat worthwhile). Kibitoshin's boost was far greater.

 

[SSJ2]

Merged Zamasu had a trash increase from the potara in the manga. SSJR Black wasn't suggested to be all that much weaker than SSJB Vegeta considering Vegeta wasn't capable of one shotting him while using bursts. MZ was only shown to be as strong as CSSJB Goku. When Vegeta switches from Blue to CSSJB against Beerus, this was his reaction:

So there's really no reason to think that CSSJB is insanely stronger than regular Blue. Considering this, the multiplier for Merged Zamasu was truly pathetic.

 

[SSJ2]

Numerically I have Merged Zamasu being 2.4x stronger than SSJR Black. There's no question that Kibitoshin's boost was monstrous in comparison.

 

[Papasmurf]

I'd say even Vegetto's boost was nowhere near what it was in Z (where two base Saiyans who were on Yakon tier before ended up stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks or even possibly Gotenks-Boo). In Super Potara doesn't seem to be monstrously above the Fusion Dance really. AT either forgot or retconned Fusion mechanics to make it less haxed.

 

[GSM123]

Meanwhile there’s people out there who think Merged Zamasu is SSJR Black multiplied by Future Zamasu

 

[Pyro]

Merged Zamasu definitely got the short end of the fusion stick. SSJR Goku Black wasn't leagues behind SSJB Vegeta, and Complete Blue wasn't a fusion's worth increase either. Additionally, Kefla's strength wasn't mind-boggling in comparison to BSSJ Kale's, considering a simple pseudo Kaio-ken power-up put Goku above her (albeit that could have been anywhere from x2 to x20, I guess). Potara in general just seemed to be nerfed to hell in Super, regardless of continuity followed.

East Kaioshin got to go from maybe Cell Games Super Saiyan tier to Boo Saga Super Saiyan 2 tier. That's good. Then again, if you follow guidebook multipliers, that's a two-fold increase...

 

[SSJ2]

Kaioshin was weaker than Pocus.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Then again, if you follow guidebook multipliers, that's a two-fold increase...

Following the guidebooks, he also went from being weaker than Yakon .

 

[Future Warrior]

I'd say even Vegetto's boost was nowhere near what it was in Z (where two base Saiyans who were on Yakon tier before ended up stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks or even possibly Gotenks-Boo). In Super Potara doesn't seem to be monstrously above the Fusion Dance really. AT either forgot or retconned Fusion mechanics to make it less haxed.

Was it really though. I mean, even SSJ Gogeta was far stronger than the Super Saiyan Blues combined.

 

[Papasmurf]

I'd say even Vegetto's boost was nowhere near what it was in Z (where two base Saiyans who were on Yakon tier before ended up stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks or even possibly Gotenks-Boo). In Super Potara doesn't seem to be monstrously above the Fusion Dance really. AT either forgot or retconned Fusion mechanics to make it less haxed.

Was it really though. I mean, even SSJ Gogeta was far stronger than the Super Saiyan Blues combined.

Numerically the gap between Yakon and Kid Boo is 400 times. Kid Boo is weaker than either base post-Rosat Gotenks or SSJ Gotenks (depending on how you construe the statements), base Vegetto appears to have been above SSJ3 Gotenks, if not above Gotenks-Boo who is twice as strong as Gotenks.

I really don't see how fusing in Super (which only brought SSJ Saiyans to the level of SSJ Broly) has the same increase. Base Saiyans in Super have the feat of blocking Merged Zamasu's rain of ki blasts while already damaged, I don't see the fusion boost as anywhere near the gap I outlined above. If it were, then Jiren basically dropped to 0.00001% of his power or some ridiculous shit after outlasting MUI Galu if two base Saiyans (who were fatigued themselves) could push him around.

 

[Future Warrior]

Base Saiyans in Super have the feat of blocking Merged Zamasu's rain of ki blasts while already damaged, I don't see the fusion boost as anywhere near the gap I outlined above. If it were, then Jiren basically dropped to 0.00001% of his power or some ridiculous shit after outlasting MUI Galu if two base Saiyans (who were fatigued themselves) could push him around.

Jiren was heavily fatigued from that fight, that's why he was getting overwhelmed. It may seem contrived, but that's what it says.

 

[Papasmurf]

Fatigued he may have been, but I don't buy him being a microscopic fraction of his 1% or some retarded shit. That doesn't line up with him asspulling another power boost soon afterwards which necessitated Golden Freeza doing a triple knock off with him and Galu, lol. Full Power Jiren isn't leagues below SSJB Gogeta either.

 

[Future Warrior]

I just don't feel like the story makes the Boo arc powers that exceedingly irrelevant imo.

 

[Papasmurf]

There's no comparison drawn between Boo arc powers and current ones in the ToP though. Plus, as I said the Potara boost was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over 400x in the OG manga (seeing as SSJ3 Goku isn't even close to base Vegetto), and I don't feel that the gap between Hakaishin tier and base ToP Saiyan tier is anywhere near that in Super (manga version). AT seems to have forgotten that Potara is a lot stronger than the Dance with equal fusees as well.

 

[Future Warrior]

I meant in DBS as a whole, even the recent arc. I just don't see Goku in just his base form being this complete powerhouse compared to anything we've seen back in Z.

I think even Namek Freeza would take out a number of contestants in the Tournament of Power.