Who made the bigger fusion gain: Merged Zamasu or Kibitoshin?

[Animelover5487]

Didn't Frost tank Ten's Kikoho unguarded without budging or any damage in the slightest, whereas Initial Semi Cell who was easily hundreds of times stronger than Ten was pushed back?

Roshi probably caught up to Kuririn, Yamcha and Ten but he's nowhere near Base Goku level, none of the Earthlings are in the manga.

The anime however is a different story, seeing as we have things like Goku going SSJ to avoid being ringed out by Kuririn, Kuririn fighting evenly with Majora, a foe #18 was struggling with and Base Goku getting excited trading blows with Roshi.

The Earthling's feats in the ToP manga are comparatively trash with only Roshi having worthwhile feats that are explicitly stated to be skill-based.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Didn't Frost tank Ten's Kikoho unguarded without budging or any damage in the slightest, whereas Initial Semi Cell who was easily hundreds of times stronger than Ten was pushed back?

It was a regular Kikoho though, as opposed to the Shin Kikoho.

The Earthling's feats in the ToP manga are comparatively trash with only Roshi having worthwhile feats that are explicitly stated to be skill-based.

Wouldn't exactly call them still being capable dodging Magetta a "trash" feat, considering he has speed on par with U6 Arc Base Vegeta.

 

[Future Warrior]

Shin (translated as ''new'') Kikoho is just a stronger version of Kikoho, meaning it's the same technique. That's like saying Goku stopped using Super Kamehameha because he always just says Kamehameha.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

We see there's a clear difference between both attacks though (at least not including the Super anime). The Shin Kikoho can be fired in rapid succession, something the regular one wasn't suggested to be capable of and something that functions far different from the simple greater size of other "Super" attack upgrades.

 

[Future Warrior]

''Can'' be fired at multiple successions. He almost died doing that against 2nd form Cell, and that was just to stall him.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It's worth noting though that Tenshinhan still declares if he's using a Shin Kikoho rather than a regular one in the Super anime despite the new description often being dropped when the upgraded version becomes the norm. Whilst this is something that currently only applies to the anime, it presenting the idea that Tenshinhan still distinguishes between his regular and upgraded versions in one continuity would make it fair game for the other until proven otherwise.

 

[Keedounan]

Definitely Kibitoshin. Regardless of my opinion on the strength of the featless fusion, he was at least implied to be on a completely different level from Kaioshin, to the point he actually wanted to help against Boo (a far cry from his attitude when up against Babidi's goons). Zamasu didn't improve all that much from Goku Black in the manga considering how strong Potaras were in the OG manga (though it's partially justified by the fact Zamasu is weaker than even Trunks, let alone Black). Even in anime, it took the mutation of Merged Zamasu to actually gain a major power-up.

 

[Papasmurf]

It's worth noting though that Tenshinhan still declares if he's using a Shin Kikoho rather than a regular one in the Super anime despite the new description often being dropped when the upgraded version becomes the norm. Whilst this is something that currently only applies to the anime, it presenting the idea that Tenshinhan still distinguishes between his regular and upgraded versions in one continuity would make it fair game for the other until proven otherwise.

Shin Kikoho is literally superior to the original in every way. Why would he use the regular variation? :dawae :dawae

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Leaving aside the common trend of "because Super characters are idiots," Shin Kikoho's strain is a lot greater than the regular's too, which may factor into the decision.

 

[Animelover5487]

He's had over a decade to improve it and I doubt a regular Kikoho would be able to block a ki blast from Bootenks when it couldn't even do superficial damage to a nearly off-guard Nappa despite the power gap being much lower.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Boo's blast was one only intended to kill Dende though, so he needn't have put much power into it at all.

 

[Animelover5487]

To say that he didn't even put 1% of his power into it seems like a stretch since there are no statements to back up him even holding back a little.

 

[Papasmurf]

Cell arc Shin Kikoho clearly doesn't have the same degree of extreme strain that a full power Kikoho from the Saiyan arc does, so I see little reason that Ten would dust off the regular one and bring it out of his storage unit when he has the far-improved version at his disposal.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Was merged zamasu really that horrible? In the manga he was able to deflect ssjb goku's attacks using nothing but hand signs. And that was before he powered up to his full power

 

[Papasmurf]

SSJ Gogeta was stronger than individual Blues. Base Vegetto while retaining fatigue was taken more seriously as a threat than unmastered Blues by Merged Zamasu. Zamasu by comparison didn't receive anywhere near as high of a boost from Rose Black, who was already on Blue tier. The anime even had to give Zamasu an anime-only transformation so he wouldn't get one-shotted by Vegetto, after his Holy Wrath got overpowered by a resolve haxed SSJB Goku.

 

[Future Warrior]

I think it goes to show how much weaker Zamasu truly is compared to anybody using the God forms.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think it goes to show how much weaker Zamasu truly is compared to anybody using the God forms.

The fact that Goku resorted to SSJG against him shows that SSJ3's stamina drain would've made it too difficult for him to beat up Zamasu enough to have him give up though. Zamasu isn't a complete ant to God tiers, just one-shot worthy similar to SSJ2 FP Trunks getting one-shotted by Godku and PSSJB Vegeta getting one-shotted by Beerus.

 

[Future Warrior]

And I believe SSJ3 is nothing to SSJ God (Goku thinks the same way in the exhibition match).

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't believe SSJ3 has to be more than 2 or 3 times weaker than God for him to make that comment. Although, I also believe SSJ3 is no longer 4x SSJ2 like in the Boo arc based on feats.

 

[Future Warrior]

If he believes Toppo who was just trouncing him as a SSJ3 might not stand a chance against SSJ God, then it has to be by a much bigger number than that. Not to mention a Hakaishin has said that SSJ God Goku vs Toppo fight was similar to a Hakaishin battle. Doesn't like a 2x increase to me.

I interpret Goku's statement as SSJ God >>> SSJ3 > SSJ2 > SSJ > Base.