XXX vs XXX

[Keedounan]

1)Likely Piccolo for CC's match-up.
2)For Supercat's match-up, 17 stomps.

EoGT Base Goku VS MUI Goku
- Goku spent the 100 years training with Whis, getting Godly Ki in the same way as Vegeta, as well as Ultra Instinct (the technique).

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Ryoko's Universe+ level, so around the level of the Hakaishin, Jiren and the Angels. With the scenario you provided, Goku would probably reach, if not surpass, Zen-Oh tier, so he stomps.

Future Super #17 runs the Cell Arc Gauntlet
- Two versions of Future #17 fuse via the same methods as in GT.
- Energy absorbing is allowed and his weak point applies.
- No intel for either side.
- If Super #17 solos, have him run a Boo Arc Gauntlet.

Edit: Likely GT Goku due to the amount of training time he had.

 

[Southern Gothic]

I have 17 stopping at Fat Boo.

Monster Zarbon vs Dodoria (Guru potential unlock )

 

[Captain Cadaver]

If Dodoria gets even 1/3 the boost that Kuririn did, he oneshots.

Final form Mira (XV2) VS SSR Black (Manga)

 

[Keedounan]

Ryoko's Universe+ level, so around the level of the Hakaishin, Jiren and the Angels. With the scenario you provided, Goku would probably reach, if not surpass, Zen-Oh tier, so he stomps.

Future Super #17 runs the Cell Arc Gauntlet
- Two versions of Future #17 fuse via the same methods as in GT.
- Energy absorbing is allowed and his weak point applies.
- No intel for either side.
- If Super #17 solos, have him run a Boo Arc Gauntlet.

Edit: Likely GT Goku due to the amount of training time he had.

Super #17 likely solos the Cell Ar Gauntlet, since Super 17 in GT was capable of absorbing energy from even SSJ4 Goku and could still absorb much more. I can see Super #17 win against even SSJ2 Gohan that way.

He'd probably lose against Good Boo, though.

Zen 21 VS Kami Tenchi universe

- 21 has copied Boo's absorption, then absorbed Zuno to get his nigh omniscience in order to find a plan to absorb everyone.

- Afterwards, she used the Super Dragon Balls to "fuse" with almost everyone in the DBVerse, in all timelines, gaining all their power, abilities and knowledge combined. The fusion is forceful, with her being the only one in control, and with the same boost as Potara fusion...and this is permanent. The only ones spared are the inhabitants of Universe 1 and the angels.

- As the new ruler of the universe thanks to having Zeno's power, she has trained for 100 of earthling years in RoSaT* with all angels (including Great Priest), unlocking Ultra Instinct. Aware that she has the greatest potential in the DBVerse (now much greater thanks to her "fusion") due to Zuno's knowledge, she knows that she will never be surpassed by anyone in the DBVerse after such a training.

*: 100 earthling years is equivalent to 13+ millions in RoSaT.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Kami Tenchi is a true omnipotent, so #21 gets oneshotted. Regardless of how strong she get, her power isn't going to become infinite.

Same matchup as before.

 

[Keedounan]

Kami Tenchi is a true omnipotent, so #21 gets oneshotted. Regardless of how strong she get, her power isn't going to become infinite.

Same matchup as before.

Should have banned Kami Tenchi.

SSR Black likely wins there since I don't have Final Form Mira leagues above Golden Freeza.

Zeno VS LEM (I/O)

 

[Spiral-Force]

I feel like SSJ3 Goku by the time he faced off against Baby Vegeta had already surpassed SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga) given how powerful his base form started off. Even if, the 50x multiplier was reduced (though I find this very unlikely), SSJ3 should still be on the low end be 10x stronger than base for the transformation to elicit as much attention from Gohan and Goten as it did. And being ten times stronger than a warrior who is likely at least two times stronger than Kid Buu should at least be on par with SSJ Vegetto. This is why I was trying to suggest something along the lines of Baby Vegeta 1 > SSJ3 Goku > / = SSJ Vegetto > SSJ2 Goku > SSJ Goku > Base Goku > Kid Buu.

Vegito's base power was certainly quite monstrous too, at least as far as the anime goes, as we saw from how well he performed against Buuhan even before he turned into a Super Saiyan. I don't understand why you have a problem with the GT SSJ multiplier reduction suggestion; this approach gives proper value to the description that Rilldo gave us about the boost instead of treating it as just another throwaway line, and it also helps in reducing power inflation when it comes to scaling. If speaking of Vegito from the DB manga, then his placement in your above chain is tolerable I suppose, since Baby's statement doesn't need to factor into that version of the story. But as far as anime Vegito goes, Super Baby > SSJ Vegito > Base Baby is much more reasonable.

 

[supercat]

I feel like SSJ3 Goku by the time he faced off against Baby Vegeta had already surpassed SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga) given how powerful his base form started off. Even if, the 50x multiplier was reduced (though I find this very unlikely), SSJ3 should still be on the low end be 10x stronger than base for the transformation to elicit as much attention from Gohan and Goten as it did. And being ten times stronger than a warrior who is likely at least two times stronger than Kid Buu should at least be on par with SSJ Vegetto. This is why I was trying to suggest something along the lines of Baby Vegeta 1 > SSJ3 Goku > / = SSJ Vegetto > SSJ2 Goku > SSJ Goku > Base Goku > Kid Buu.

Vegito's base power was certainly quite monstrous too, at least as far as the anime goes, as we saw from how well he performed against Buuhan even before he turned into a Super Saiyan. I don't understand why you have a problem with the GT SSJ multiplier reduction suggestion; this approach gives proper value to the description that Rilldo gave us about the boost instead of treating it as just another throwaway line, and it also helps in reducing power inflation when it comes to scaling. If speaking of Vegito from the DB manga, then his placement in your above chain is tolerable I suppose, since Baby's statement doesn't need to factor into that version of the story. But as far as anime Vegito goes, Super Baby > SSJ Vegito > Base Baby is much more reasonable.

I don't really have a problem with the lower SSJ multipliers, but it's just hard adhering to the concept since nothing of that sort was directly stated. The most logical explanation behind it would be that Goku learned to amplify his power in base at a greater rate, thereby lowering the boost he gains by transforming. It works either way I suppose. Though if it the 50x multiplier stays the same, GT SSJ Goku would make SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga) seem like a weakling.

GT power increases were so vast that it's just hard for me to see SSJ Vegetto as a powerhouse. Plus, in the Z anime, statements and feats made it quite ambiguous when it came down to who the strongest Buu really was. Feats and logic point towards Buuhan and Buutenks being top-tier while statements and such place Kid Buu above them.

So if GT follows the concept that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu, GT Base Goku > Kid Buu could very well mean that GT SSJ Goku > SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga). This isn't nearly as intense as Super's incarnation of Base Goku, following his battle with Beerus. After absorbing the ritual powers, it was indicated that Goku in his mere SSJ form retained the power produced by ritual. This would likely place his base form far above the likes of SSJ Vegetto, if Goku's lack of confidence in fusion is anything to go by. I feel the lack of confidence in fusion is a huge factor here since this was right after SSJ3 Goku (who at that point was implied to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks) got wrecked by Beerus.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Zeno VS LEM (I/O)

Zen-Oh gets oneshotted. LEM exists with infinite dimensional layers, placing her at High Hyperverse level, whereas Zen-Oh's just a Multi-Universe buster, plus she's Omnipresent.

Baby Arc Piccolo VS Gotenks Boo

I don't really have a problem with the lower SSJ multipliers, but it's just hard adhering to the concept since nothing of that sort was directly stated. The most logical explanation behind it would be that Goku learned to amplify his power in base at a greater rate, thereby lowering the boost he gains by transforming. It works either way I suppose. Though if it the 50x multiplier stays the same, GT SSJ Goku would make SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga) seem like a weakling.

Episode 19
Time: Roughly 19m40s
Context: Rild senses Goku's ki after Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan
Rild: “Up to now, you haven't been putting out half of your power."

Half being the benchmark would definitely point to the GT SSJ multiplier being in between a 2-3x multiplier (ie. a 2.5x), rather than anything close to the 50x in most of Z.

Also, I'd advise creating a thread for this discussion either as a Versus thread or in the non-canon section so as to not derail this one.

 

[Future Warrior]

I'd give it to Gotenks Boo, since I don't think Piccolo reached such power until the Super #17 arc.

SSJ2 Vegeta (EoZ) vs Base Gotenks (Post)

 

[Ultimate Cell]

SS2 Vegeta stomps. I think he would win with minimal effort. Pikkon vs SS Vegeta(Pre-Majin)

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Vegeta stomps if it's the version of Paikuhan from the post-Cell Games filler, given the anime retaining the SS2 Goku > SS2 CG Gohan > SSJ Boo Arc Goku chain shows Cell definitely wasn't going all out when Paikuhan beat him and this version of Vegeta should at least be on par with Gohan's Cell Games self, who was far above Goku at the same time. If it's the version of Paikuhan from Movie 12, then he stomps via scaling from his weighted self being on par with a version of Base Goku stronger than his Boo Arc self.

Oozaru Bardock VS Ginyu Tokusentai (minus Ginyu)

 

[Ultimate Cell]

The Ginyu forces win, Bardock will be stronger but he will lack speed and the Ginyu can cut off their tails and avoid his attacks. And why do you think Pikkon would lose against Vegeta. Goku had to Super Saiyan Kaioken on him to punch him away, and Pikkon right away recover from that punch. That puts Pikkon higher than Cell Games Goku by a considerable amount of he recovered that fast. He should be able to defeat Vegeta.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

And why do you think Pikkon would lose against Vegeta. Goku had to Super Saiyan Kaioken on him to punch him away, and Pikkon right away recover from that punch. That puts Pikkon higher than Cell Games Goku by a considerable amount of he recovered that fast. He should be able to defeat Vegeta.

Aside from the Super Kaioken instance, Paikuhan seemed to be barely above SSJ Goku throughout the remainder of the fight. Him taking the Super Kaioken was likely just PIS due to it being inconsistent with what the rest of the fight showed. Whilst you could say Paikuhan simply has amazing durability, that applies far moreso for Vegeta who's taken hits from opponents with far greater superiority to him (eg. The battle with the Z-Warriors on Earth, taking hits from Pure Boo, etc.)

Since you didn't post another match: VS Champa

 

[Ultimate Cell]

Champa takes it. Beerus was implied to be one of the strongest Gods and Champa is only slightly weaker than Beerus. Champa takes it with high difficulty. Raditz Vs Pokemon Gauntlet. Excluding the creation trio.(Basically Raditz arrives on Pokemon Earth, decides to do the same shit like in the anime, kill off all the inhabitants and sell it.)

 

[Pocket-God]

He's probably gonna get taken out by the first pokemon that can hit him with a status effect. But if he's just going around blitzing everything then I could see him clearing.

GoD Toppo vs Sidra

 

[Spiral-Force]

I don't really have a problem with the lower SSJ multipliers, but it's just hard adhering to the concept since nothing of that sort was directly stated. The most logical explanation behind it would be that Goku learned to amplify his power in base at a greater rate, thereby lowering the boost he gains by transforming. It works either way I suppose. Though if it the 50x multiplier stays the same, GT SSJ Goku would make SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga) seem like a weakling.

Nothing suggested that Goku had upper layers of his base form that amplify his base power. That idea doesn't hold as much weight as an actual statement on the topic. Rilldo may not have literally stated the multiplier, but it's fairly easy to gauge the range from what he said. The "less than half" distinction made between Base/SSJ Goku points to the boost being in the ballpark of 2-3x. If it was a whopping 50x times, then it would have been sensible for him to have said Goku got "tens of times" stronger. I see no reason to treat the specific detail loosely here.

GT power increases were so vast that it's just hard for me to see SSJ Vegetto as a powerhouse. Plus, in the Z anime, statements and feats made it quite ambiguous when it came down to who the strongest Buu really was. Feats and logic point towards Buuhan and Buutenks being top-tier while statements and such place Kid Buu above them.

Well, Vegito was a big deal back in his time. He towered over everyone in terms of power. Even when Buuhan got a rage boost and nearly opened up alternate dimensions that were capable of crushing the Universe, Vegito put a stop to him. To me, it's nice to see that his battle power is relevant to mid-tier Baby Arc level.

Some statements from the anime support Super Buu being stronger than Kid Buu, such as the one Goku made about being no match for the former. I see what you mean about the ambiguity though. Goku states Kid Buu (initial) is the strongest Buu, but fights on par with him as an SSJ2, whereas SSJ2 Goku was losing against Super Buu when they fought inside of Buu's body. Weird stuff. I roll with the manga's scaling for the anime's depiction of the Buu Arc for the most part, and treat the last-minute Kid Buu power statements as pure hype.

So if GT follows the concept that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu, GT Base Goku > Kid Buu could very well mean that GT SSJ Goku > SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga).

Even when following the haxed Kid Buu concept, nothing stops SSJ Vegito from being between SBV1 and Base Baby, especially considering Goku indicates Vegito could have finished Kid Buu off:

Spoiler

He doesn't need to be capped as low as you have him.

This isn't nearly as intense as Super's incarnation of Base Goku, following his battle with Beerus. After absorbing the ritual powers, it was indicated that Goku in his mere SSJ form retained the power produced by ritual. This would likely place his base form far above the likes of SSJ Vegetto, if Goku's lack of confidence in fusion is anything to go by. I feel the lack of confidence in fusion is a huge factor here since this was right after SSJ3 Goku (who at that point was implied to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks) got wrecked by Beerus.

Yeah, Super Goku is a different kind of beast. Post-God Base Goku far surpasses Buu Arc Vegito.

 

[Spiral-Force]

@supercat If you want to continue this discussion, reply to me via PM or include your reply in a new thread dedicated to the topic.

 

[SIAD]

I think Sidra still defeats Toppo the Destroyer. I do not think Sidra is insignificant against the other Destroying Gods.

Ryoko most powerful version runs the Guantalet DBGT.

If Ryoko erases, then he should heal and run the DBS Guantalet.