Best Damn Levels in the Business!

[p123]

Zarbon sure as shit wasn't getting effected nearly as much as that by Vegeta's attacks. So I gotta go with the damage here.

 

[ahill1]

Why is Roshi > full tournament level Goku? Roshi said he might have been surpassed upon seeing Goku defeating Kuririn, and we all know Goku had yet to reveal he has another level.

 

[p123]

Yea, that's a very tricky situation. Tien says he can barely see Goku's movements, even with his three eyes. I think that's more of a technique that Goku has, more than anything extremely relative to increased battle power imo.

That's just Max Level Goku's ultimate technique, more or less. I think Roshi can take Match Level Goku easily.

 

[ahill1]

Dunno. Roshi seemed to treat Goku vs Tenshinhan as the match of the day and yet was surprised with Goku having another level of power. He already admitted he "would have probably lost to Tenshinhan" and expected Goku and Ten would have an even match, only to be surprised by the quickness with which Ten attacked Goku and by Goku having yet to reveal his FP.

Goku (FP) >= Tenshinhan (FP) >> Tenshinhan (roshi's estimations) ~ Goku (roshi's estimations) >= Roshi. It seems a very strong chain.

 

[p123]

The reason Roshi thinks he has been surpassed is because he can't see Goku. Tien can barely see Goku, even with his 3 eyes. I don't think that technique is indicative of power level. I don't think Initial Goku vs Tien is anything Roshi couldn't keep up with, hell, isn't Tien using the same exact level of power against Goku initially as he did with Jackie Chun?

All in all, I think Roshi keeps up with that fight well enough, he gets lost when Goku tries that super speed attack and succumbs to Goku's technique.

 

[ahill1]

I don't think that's solely the reason. He also admitted he'd have probably lost to Tenshinhan, meaning Tenshinhan >= him. And he was also expecting to see a formidable match between the two finalists, implying his estimations for Goku couldn't be < his full power. Yet he was unaware Goku was holding back another level of power. Even if that technique might confuse things a little, he should already be expecting both Goku and Tenshinhan to be slightly stronger than him, and that's before knowing their full power.

 

[p123]

Yes. Roshi probably would have lost to Tien. Tien also shoots down the notion that he was being a coward, stating he that Roshi had not unleashed his full power yet. Roshi is treated with respect and it is never suggested that he would be complete fodder for Tien.

So you are saying at minimum, Initial Goku vs Tien should be at a level higher than Roshi?

 

[ahill1]

I think Roshi expected Goku and Ten to be on a level slightly above his capabilities. But we see he was surprised at Goku dishing out his battle level, meaning he didn't know Goku had another level setted to battle. Goku (battle level) >> Goku (roshi's estimations) >= Roshi. It still makes Roshi considerably weaker than them.

 

[Void]

Goku and Ten do not have to be >> Roshi. Roshi would certainly lose though.

 

[p123 is a God]

This list is pretty accurate, man. Good job, I really aprreciate a well done power level list.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1) Why does Goku need to power up after the 21st? He wasn't gravely injured as far as I saw. I give him bonuses when he recovers from near death and serious injuries. He was just fine after the fight.

2) Metallic shouldn't be too powerful. He was fighting a suppressed Goku after all.

3) No, Tien was able to see through Goku's technique laid a beating on him and then god wtf god stomped by Goku's battle power. I think it was a clear sign of Goku Battle Power > Tien Initial = Goku Match Level.

4) I think Cymbal > Krillin, Yamcha, Chaozu level. I think the many times stronger is not as important as making Cymbal reasonably strong.

5) I saw some of that, but then I saw some scenes that suggested Goku was well above. If you want, do a fight comparison and show both fights and we can discuss that further there.

6) Chapter: 177, P1.2-4, P2.1
Tenshinhan: “Son, you are truly incredible. 3 years ago, your strength was all but perfect. I’m amazed that you’ve managed to go so far above even that. However, there’s one thing that you haven’t changed that much from 3 years ago. And that’s something especially important in battle…speed!”

No error. Weighted Goku is stated to be more powerful than the Goku who fought King Piccolo. This is power levels, not speed levels.

7) Have you watched the fights? Post Regen 1 Cooler pulls off some disgusting feats against the Super Saiyans. He is literally choking Goku to death with one hand and all around abusing them. Go watch those fights again and tell me what you think. That's a 1.5x gap if I ever saw one. Some of the things he was doing was more impressive than Goku vs Ginyu Force.

1. Goku wasn't near death at any time between 21st and pirate's cave, yet Krillin noted he was stronger. It was a small increase after
all those hard fights, including 21st.
2. I don't think Goku was very suppressed, he was probably at like 90% of his max. Metallic was stated to be at 21st Goku/Roshi level.
3. But, before the fight, Tenshinhan said he might have an enjoyable fight. Also, Goku noted Tien was going for the kill. I think he
went all out. The gap wasn't big; Tien gained some free hits after seeing through Goku's move and, then, Goku surprised him by going
Battle Level.
4. Make Cymbal 500 and Tambourine 1250
5. I don't do college essays.
6. Goku was equal to Tenshinhan's power, except the moment he did a burst to gain the upper hand in their grapple (that
was probably what Tenshinhan noted)...
Kid Goku- 100
Weighted Goku (strength and speed)- 105
Tenshinhan (suppressed speed)- 105
Weighted Goku (strength burst)- 150
Tenshinhan (full speed)- 120
7. I make the gap 1.2x to explain why they could take him down together.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

This list is pretty accurate, man. Good job, I really aprreciate a well done power level list.

You made a second account to praise yourself?

 

[p123]

1) He was hurt very badly by that gun General White shot him with.
2) Comes down to opinion, you are reaching with yours here.
3) Then Match Level shouldn't have matched Tien earlier.
4) Nope.
5) Probably why you'll be a basement dweller for life.
6) You should read the quote again. Goku's strength is > his speed.
7) Not good to use that mentality with TOEI. They have fights end abruptly for no reason. I calculate the fights by their feats.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1. Not near death though. He didn't even need treatment.
3. Depends what gap you feel is needed for Battle Level to be treated as ''a different level of power''.
6. I don't even know where we disagree here. Nvm.

 

[p123]

He didn't need treatment after Tambourine knocked him out, but I gave him some zenkai power there too. With early DB, sometimes it's a matter of choice. Things are not as concrete as DBZ is and sometimes there doesn't seem to be any real "right" way. It's more about slopping things together for the icky parts. Yajirobe, Cymbal implications are a fucking mess, Goku,Tien,Roshi comparison at 22nd is a mess, Roshi's untimely "he may have surpassed even me" when he's clearly been surpassed, when he is supposed to be a ki sensor, are a fucking mess.

So I do what I can with it. If I can get someone to prove concrete that I'm wrong, sure, I'll change it, but much of this stuff is up for interpretation from what I can see.

I see Battle Level Goku fucking thrashing Tien, eyeballs popping out, he's getting rocked badly. I give it a 1.5x boost. But then I think Roshi wouldn't be worm food even against that level too. It's not clearly written and it's not properly thought out.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

P123, these days, i prepare my own No Scouters list. Don't you dare taking one of those forum breaks of yours before i post it.

 

[p123]

Good. Has to be no scouters, there's no way to do a complete list without it. I'll be here for a little while. And I will massacre your list. Don't worry.

 

[ahill1]

Where's Yajirobe in Piccolo Daimao's saga?

 

[p123]

Yajirobe is a mess. How am I supposed to rate that? Made a major decision. I'm going to be a decimal point faggot. No one wants to see trillions and tons of zeros so early, I'm going to have to bring it down. Working on that now. Much easier on the eyes. And talking about Freeza powers and better is more easily relatable than me having to bring up trillions. Must conform sometimes. Greater good.

 

[ahill1]

Try to make seperate lists for DB and DBZ. Don't make the DBZ numbers as a continuation, but rather make Piccolo and Goku for example as a 10 (cool number) and work from it.