Dragon Ball Discussion

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Hey everyone, new evidence for Gohan being a Super Saiyan vs Dabra from the Daizenshuu 7's item dictionary:
Barbarian Sword
First Appearance: chapter 455
Category: battle item
Explanation: A sword which Dabura produced through magic. He used it against Super Saiyan Gohan.

How reliable do you guys think this is though? After all, the item dictionary does call Gohan a regular SSJ when Yamu and :bitch were sucking his energy...

 

[Six Trails]

Just like Kaioshin, the Daizenshuu seems to be using "Super Saiyan" as a general catch-all term for all of the transformations. If it calls him a Super Saiyan against Yamu and Spopovich, then yeah, it really can't be argued to discredit him being a SS2 against Dabra.

That font color is also for dark themes. :mikey

 

[Evil Vegeta]

^Basically that.

161 - Gohan vs Spopovich & Yamu
Vol. 37 / Chp. 445
Kibito coerced Gohan into becoming a Super Saiyan. This was in order to lure out someone who needed a large amount of energy. One of the people to notice Super Saiyan Gohan's energy was Yamu. The other one was Spopovich, who was in the match with Videl. The two of them come at Gohan to try to suck out his energy. Gohan tries to counterattack, but Kaioshin forcibly stops him and lets Yamu and Spopovich get away in order to find their evil ringleader. The one manipulating the pair was an evil wizard.

444: At Kibito's request, Gohan becomes a Super Saiyan. Yamu and Spopovich steal Gohan's energy and escape

Yamu and Spopovich steal Super Saiyan Gohan's energy!

 

[Void]

Just like Kaioshin, the Daizenshuu seems to be using "Super Saiyan" as a general catch-all term for all of the transformations. If it calls him a Super Saiyan against Yamu and Spopovich, then yeah, it really can't be argued to discredit him being a SS2 against Dabra.

That font color is also for dark themes. :mikey

Avatar thief :mikey

 

[Six Trails]

Just like Kaioshin, the Daizenshuu seems to be using "Super Saiyan" as a general catch-all term for all of the transformations. If it calls him a Super Saiyan against Yamu and Spopovich, then yeah, it really can't be argued to discredit him being a SS2 against Dabra.

That font color is also for dark themes. :mikey

Avatar thief :mikey

 

[SIAD]

Gohan was an SSJ against Dabura. Goku knew that Vegeta could finish Dabura, before knowing that Vegeta could transform into SSJ2. Goku, thinking that using SSJ2 could defeat Majin Vegeta in an instant, confirms that Goku did not know that Vegeta had SSJ2.

 

[Six Trails]

Gohan was an SSJ against Dabura. Goku knew that Vegeta could finish Dabura, before knowing that Vegeta could transform into SSJ2. Goku, thinking that using SSJ2 could defeat Majin Vegeta in an instant, confirms that Goku did not know that Vegeta had SSJ2.

"He was shocked at Vegeta's power."

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah, Vegeta suppressed his power by like 5% so Goku knew it would be a tough fight, but didn't know they were equals

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Well, the same Vegeta said he's also above Gohan. Unless Goku assumed Vegeta was being delusional there, logically he'd assume Vegeta was also a Super Saiyan 2. I doubt he'd believe Super Saiyan Vegeta could handle Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.

 

[Six Trails]

The way I see it, Super Saiyan 2 isn't considered when talking about Gohan's full (non-enraged) power. To them, Gohan's SS2 is part of his power that he can only access when he's angry. I'm aware of Vegeta's statement that Gohan can surpass them when enraged which wouldn't work with SS2 Gohan = enraged Gohan, but given the volatile nature of Gohan's anger, I don't think his SS2 power would be the limit to how high he could get.

I also go by the Budokai retcon theory (which isn't that outlandish to me since there's been other blatant retcons in the manga like the original Artificial Humans being No. 19 and No. 20) but I can't objectively prove it, so yeah. :elmo

 

[Future Warrior]

Gohan was a SSJ2 you fucks.

 

[Six Trails]

The only time Teen Gohan ever fights as a Super Saiyan 2 is against Broly.

 

[Void]

Gohan was a SSJ2 you fucks.

He's a Super Saiyan.

 

[Void]

Well, the same Vegeta said he's also above Gohan. Unless Goku assumed Vegeta was being delusional there, logically he'd assume Vegeta was also a Super Saiyan 2. I doubt he'd believe Super Saiyan Vegeta could handle Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.

Goku being shocked at Vegeta turning SS2 makes even less sense if Gohan was a SS2 vs. Dabra.

 

[ahill1]

Be that as it may, Kami still had centuries to train, so even by himself his increase in power would make sense if he were equal to Daimao. Piccolo talking about Kami neglecting his training and Majunior's gains in 3 years alone seem to support this.

But doesn't Majunior saying that Kami has slackedd off on his training imply that Kami (post split) >> Kami (23rd Budokai)? Piccolo Junior hasn't "seen" or interacted with Kami since he was one with him, so him saying that Kami is a lazy mofo who hasn't trained would only imply he isn't as powerful as he was once he splitted, otherwise I don't know why Piccolo Junior would come to this conclusion if old Kami was considerably stronger than his "post split" self.

That's why I think that the "their power were splitted in half" was either poorly thought up by Akira Toiryama, or Piccolo also lost power while stuck on the jag and the Dragon Balls couldn't restore such power, only the one lost by old age, therein leading us to "Kami (right after the split) ~ Piccolo Daimao (right after the split) >>> old Kami >>> Piccolo Daimao (youth but not power restored)".

 

[Future Warrior]

The only time Teen Gohan ever fights as a Super Saiyan 2 is against Broly.

Who is Broly?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Who is Broly?

Spoiler

 

[SIAD]

Well, the same Vegeta said he's also above Gohan. Unless Goku assumed Vegeta was being delusional there, logically he'd assume Vegeta was also a Super Saiyan 2. I doubt he'd believe Super Saiyan Vegeta could handle Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.

Goku being shocked at Vegeta turning SS2 makes even less sense if Gohan was a SS2 vs. Dabra.

Exactly, it is possible that Goku hoped that Gohan needed to get angry to get SSJ2, which implies that Goku knew that Vegeta was superior to Gohan (without getting angry).

  Goku assumed that Vegeta was >> Dabura and only saw as a possibility that Vegeta had SSJ2. So the logical thing is that Vegeta SSJ (Boo) is >> Dabura and Gohan was an SSJ against Dabura.

 

[SIAD]

The only time Teen Gohan ever fights as a Super Saiyan 2 is against Broly.

Who is Broly?

Palk's friend.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

[mention]SIAD[/mention] couldn't that mean SSJ Vegeta was stronger than SSJ2 Gohan though?